FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 1
1IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS 2COUNTY DEPARTMENT - LAW DIVISION 4DELBERT J. CHARLES, as )
Independent Administrator ) 5of the Estate of ABNERD )
JOSEPH, deceased, ) 6Plaintiff, ) Case No.
vs. ) 2024L005346 7SUDLER AND COMPANY d/b/a ) Cons w/
SUDLER PROPERTY MANAGEMENT ) 2024L010547 8LEGACY AT MILLENNIUM PARK )
CONDOMINIUM ASSOCIATION, ) 9DEBORAH ROMERO, DOMINIC )
TEDALDI, GARRET MARK ) 10SMITH, YOUNAN "JOSEPH" )
NENA, ANDREW CLEMENT, ) 11ROBERT JOHN BISHOPP, JR., )
and NATALIE BISHOPP, ) 14The deposition of DANIEL DOWLING, called for 15examination, taken pursuant to the provisions of 16the Code of Civil Procedure and the Rules of the 17Supreme Court of the State of Illinois pertaining 18to the taking of depositions for the purpose of 19discovery, taken before CARIANN WAGNER, CSR 20No. 084-003836 a Certified Shorthand reporter 21within and for the County of Cook, State of 22Illinois at Suite 2500, 151 North Franklin Street, 23Chicago, Illinois, on April 27, 2026 at 11:00 a.m. FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 2
3ROMANUCCI & BLANDIN, LLC, by: 5321 North Clark Street, Suite 900 9Appeared on behalf of the Plaintiff; 14221 North LaSalle Street, Suite 2200 15Chicago, Illinois 60601 17jpderatany@lawinjury.com 18Appeared on behalf of Delbert J. Page 3
2HINSHAW & CULBERTSON, LLP, by: 4151 North Franklin Street, Suite 2500 8Appeared on behalf of Defendant, 9Millennium Park Condo Association and 12SWEENEY, SCHARKEY & BLANCHARD, LLC, by: 15230 West Monroe Street, Suite 1500 16Chicago, Illinois 60606 18ewenger@ssbpartners.com, 20Appeared on behalf of Defendant, Garrett Page 4
53815 East Main St., Suite A-1 6St. Charles, Illinois 60174 8Appeared on behalf of the Defendant, 13123 North Wacker Drive, Suite 1800 14Chicago, Illinois 60606 17Appeared on behalf of the Defendants, 18Sudler and Company, Dominic Tedaldi, Page 5
3BEST VANDERLAAN & HARRINGTON, by: 5200 North LaSalle Street, Suite 2600 9Appeared on behalf of the Defendants, 10John and Natalie Bishopp; 16Chicago, Illinois 60602 18Appeared on behalf of the deponent. 20ALSO PRESENT: GARRETT M. SMITH 22VIDEOGRAPHER: BEN DIXON 23REPORTED BY: CARIANN WAGNER, C.S.R. 24CERTIFICATE NO. 084-003836 FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 6
14Exhibit No. 1 Cleared Closed Report 25 15Exhibit No. 2 ** audio file ** 43 16Exhibit No. 3 ** audio file ** 70 17Exhibit No. 4 Case Supplementary Report 85 Page 7
1THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. We're going 2on the record at 11:11 a.m. on April 27, 2026. 3Please note that the microphones are sensitive and 4may pick up whispering and private conversations. 5Please mute your phones at this time. Audio and 6video recording will continue to take place unless 7all parties agree to go off the record. This is 8media unit one of the recorded deposition of 9Detective Daniel Dowling taken by counsel for 10defendant in the matter of Delbert J. Charles 11versus Sudler & Company, et al., filed in the 12Circuit Court of Cook County Illinois, County 13Department, Law Division, case Nos. 2024 L 005346 14consolidated with 2024 L 010547. The location of 15the deposition is 151 North Franklin, Suite 2500, 17My name is Ben Dixon, CLVS, representing 18Veritext Legal Solutions and I'm the videographer. 19The court reporter is Cari Wagner from the firm 20Veritext Legal Solutions. 21I am not related to any party in this 22action, nor am I financially interested in the 23outcome. If there are any objections to 24proceeding, please state them at the time of your Page 8
2Counsel and all present, including 3remotely, will now state their appearance and 4affiliation with the record beginning with the 6MR. VAIDYA: Good morning, everyone. My name 7for the record is Anshunan Vaidya. That's 8A-n-s-h-u-n-a-n, V as in Victor, a-i-d, as in 9David, y-a. I represent defendants Legacy and Nena 10and I'm with the firm Hinshaw & Culbertson. 11MS. WENGER: Good morning, 12Erin Wenger, W-e-n-g-e-r and I'm with Sweeney 13Scharkey representing Garrett Smith in both 15MS. WHITE: Good morning, Maura White on 16behalf of the plaintiffs in the wrongful death 17matter and the defendants in the defamation case. 18MR. KING: I'm not hearing by the way. If you 19guys are speaking, I'm not hearing anything. 20THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Can you hear us now? 21MR. KING: Now I can, yes. 22MR. WANGLER: Dan Wangler, W-a-n-g-l-e-r on 23behalf of City of Chicago and Detective Dan Page 9
1THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the court reporter 2please swear in the witness and counsel may 4MR. DERATANY: I'll also identify myself as 5Jay Deratany for the defendants in the defamation 6case and family members. 7MR. WEISS: Michael Weiss from Cozen O'Connor 8on behalf of Sudler and Dominic Tedaldi and Dominic 9-- or excuse me, Deborah Romero. 10MS. TRIBBIA: Chris Tribbia on behalf of the 12MR. NEGA: Michael Nega on behalf of defendant 13Andrew Clement from Amundsen Davis. 14MR. KING: Mike King on behalf of Garrett 16MS. WENGER: And for the record, Mr. Garrett 17is also present with counsel. 18(WHEREUPON, the witness was duly FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 10
2called as a witness herein, having been first duly 3sworn, was examined and testified as follows: 6Q. All right. Detective, just to set some 7ground rules. This is an exam. Nobody is 8necessarily trying to trick you. We just want you 9to relay the answers that you have to the best of 10your recollection. This isn't a courtroom, but, 11generally speaking, a lot of same rules apply as if 12you were testifying in court. So I just want to 13establish that -- you know, I'm going to ask you a 14bunch of questions. The other lawyers are going to 15ask you questions. If you don't understand a 16question, you can say, I don't understand. You can 17ask me to rephrase it. But if you do answer my 18question, I'm going to assume that you understood 19the question; is that fair? 21Q. All right. And if you need to take a 22break at any time, just say the word and we'll get 23you a break. And you understand that your words, 24even though this is a videotaped deposition, we Page 11
1also ave a court reporter present so you need to 2verbalize any responses to make sure the court 3reporter can take it down. 5Q. All right. Are you under the influence 6of any medication or substance, legal, prescription 7or otherwise that would in any way prevent you from. 8giving honest and accurate testimony here today? 10Q. Are you currently suffering from any 11mental or physical condition which would impair 12your ability to recall events from the past? 14Q. Or understand my questions? 16Q. Or otherwise testify truthfully here 20So you've testified in court before; is 23Q. So about how many times have you 24testified, would you say? Page 12
1A. In my 19-year career, I know it's over 3Q. Okay. Have you ever testified in a 5A. I was a witness in one civil case. 6Q. And was that in a courtroom or in a 7deposition like this one? 8A. It was in a deposition. 9Q. Okay. Could you tell us what city do 10you currently reside in? 11MR. WANGLER: Objection, personal. He's an 12officer. We'll offer it if he appears at trial. 14Q. All right. Where do you currently work? 15A. Chicago Police Department. 16Q. And you're represented by counsel here 19Q. From Corporation Counsel's Office? 21Q. And how long have you been with the 22Chicago Police Department? 23A. July will be 20 years, so 19. 24Q. And can you describe -- generally Page 13
1describe the training that you have received as a 2Chicago police officer starting with the academy 3up and through your current position? 4A. Sure. In July of '06, I began at the 5Chicago Police Academy. That was six months long, 6first firearms training, tactical training, law. 7Then as I became a full-fledged officer, 8there is continuing education, both online and 9in-person. I'm trained in sexual assault cases, 10violent crimes, lead homicide investigator 11training, trauma informed individual training, 12several state laws that were updated and just 13continued throughout my career. 14Q. And could you just walk us through your 15career in terms of your assignments as a Chicago 17A. Sure. I began my career in the west 18side of Chicago in the 11th District as a 20I then went to several citywide units 21that were deployed. I worked protests. I worked 22any violent crimes I would respond to. For awhile 23I worked downtown at the critical incident response 24team, and then I was promoted to detective. FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 14
1Q. And what year did you become a 4Q. And is that your current assignment? 5A. I'm a detective at 630, which is 6area 3, Chicago Police Defendant, violent crimes. 7Q. Can you describe to us the different -- 8are there different types of detective assignments 9or is it just one -- one assignment? 10A. There's several types. There's three 11oversight office, which is violent crimes, then 12there's robbery, burglary, theft and then there's 13special victims unit. I'm assigned currently to 15Q. And when you became a detective, was 16that your assignment as well? 17A. Originally, yes, then I moved to work in 18homicide investigations. I just recently went to 19days, so now I do general assignment, anything 20generally besides shootings or murders I should 22Q. Can you tell us in your career as a 23detective the kinds of cases that you have Page 15
1A. Sure. Any aggravated batteries, any 2shootings, homicides, stabbings, some things as 3little as nowadays as telephone threats I might 4work. Anything that comes my way that I'm 6Q. And do you recall what was your 7assignment back on September 14th, 2023? 8A. I was assigned to the afternoon homicide 10Q. And can you just briefly walk through 11the homicide specific training that you have 12received as a police officer? 13A. Sure. We have a week-long just strictly 14homicide investigator training and detective 15training. And then after this case, I then went to 16arefresher. Every three to four years we have to 17be refreshed, and I went through a lead homicide 18investigator refresher. 19Q. Now turning your attention back to that 20September of 2023, were you the primary detective 21assigned to investigate the death of an individual 24Q. And do you recall how did you receive Page 16
2A. Atour detective division there was a 3radio on and I heard that there had been a shooting 4and it looked like it was grave condition, so I 5proactively went to the scene. I wasn't assigned. 6It was my turn to take the case. My Sergeant was 7aware. And my Sergeant then said since I was up, 8that I would be assigned now, so we proactively 10Q. Can you tell us what is -- what is the 11typical method of how an assignment is made with 12respect to a homicide investigation? 13A. Sure. So usually preliminary 14investigators would be like a reporting officer 15would respond to the scene. They figure out what, 16if any, crime has occurred and then they notify the 17detective division of what crime occurred and then 18that's when we would be assigned. 19Q. Okay. So I just want to ask you some 20global questions about homicide investigations. 21Big picture, what is the duty and 22function of a homicide detective? 23A. Preliminary to identify any offenders 24and then make a physical arrest and then charge Page 17
1them accordingly and then go to court. 2Q. Do you investigate to determine whether 3someone was murdered or not? 5Q. And do you determine which murder charge 6should be pursued or do you make recommendations 8A. I make an initial recommendation of the 9Cook County State's Attorney's Office and then the 10Cook County State's Attorney's Office ultimately 12Q. Are you familiar with the Illinois 13statutes, the Illinois murder statutes? 15Q. Is there a charge in Illinois called 18Q. Andcan you just tell us what is a First 20A. First Degree Murder is the intentional 21homicide of an individual. 22Q. Can you someone be charged with First 23Degree Murder even if they didn't intend to kill 24somebody but they engaged in an action and had FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 18
1knowledge and strong probability that death would 4Q. And can someone be convicted of First 5Degree Murder if they're committing another felony 6and a death occurs as a result? 8Q. All right. Now are you familiar with 9the charge of Second Degree Murder? 11Q. What's the difference between Second 12Degree Murder and First Degree Murder? 13A. Second Degree Murder might be a case 14where I would investigate that maybe the individual 15thought they were proper in First Degree Murder and 16it wasn't, so it would be a Second Degree Murder 18Q. So what's an example of like a Second 19Degree Murder type case? 20A. Let's say a husband walks in, 21hypothetically, his wife is in romantic 22relationship with another individual, a crime of 23passion, he immediately murders him, then that can 24be Second Degree Murder. Page 19
1Q. Okay. What about -- can someone be in 2your experience have there been any cases or are 3you familiar with the concept that you can be 4charged with Second Degree Murder if you have a 5belief that you're acting in self defense but that 6belief is not reasonable? 8Q. And what about involuntary manslaughter. 9Are you familiar with that charge? 11Q. What is involuntary manslaughter? 12A. Involuntary manslaughter, I have 13specific case where an individual struck another 14individual. He was holding a 9-year-old autistic 15child who then fell down the stairs and was killed 16as a result of striking that individual holding 17him, so that's involuntary manslaughter. 18Q. I see. And what about the charge of 20A. Reckless homicide might be something, 21hypothetically speaking, playing with a firearm and 22it accidentally goes off and shoots somebody and 24Q. All right. Are there any other Page 20
1death-related charges that would be within the your 2purview as an investigator to investigate when 3you're looking at someone who has been killed? 4A. There is a voluntary manslaughter and 6Q. All right. Now, can you just walk us 7through what are the basic steps, again big 8picture, that the Chicago Police Department engages 9when conducting a homicide investigation? 10A. Sure. We interview witnesses, process 11crime scenes, try to recover video, any type of 12electronics. We rendezvous with the Medical 13Examiner's Office. We find out cause of death and 14obviously speak to anybody at the scene, the 15preliminary investigators, as part of that. 16Q. And there any procedural rules that are 17specific to homicide investigations that might not 18apply to regular investigations? 19A. There are some investigations that are 20misdemeanor investigations I might be part of that 21are mostly over the phone. Obviously, as a 22homicide investigator, I'm talking to people face 23to face; but, otherwise, not that I can think of. 24Q. Are there any rules with respect to Page 21
1recording interviews that you're aware of with 2regard to your role as detective? 3A. If I have a defendant in custody for a 4homicide investigation, it's going to be recorded, 5the interview. There are certain interviews that 6are not related to homicides. 7Q. Okay. All right. So there is a number 8of legal procedural positions someone can find 9themselves in and I wanted to ask you maybe just to 10explain the difference. 11What is -- is there a difference between 12within someone is detained versus when someone is 14A. So detained can be temporary. They can 15be released. When they're in custody, they are 16then transported to station. They transported from 17that scene, so detention is more temporary. 18Q. Okay. Is there a difference between 19being in custody and being under arrest? 21Q. Okay. Do homicide detectives decide 22whether someone should be put under arrest or put 23in custody on a murder charge? 24A. Depending on the case, it's possible, FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 22
1depending. You can send a fugitive apprehension 2unit to place that individual into custody, so then 3you're creating the situation where they are 4arrested. Sometimes it can happen on scene. 5Q. What's the interplay between the Chicago 6Police Department and the State's Attorney's Office 7in a typical homicide case? 8A. In a typical homicide investigation, I 9would notify them if there was an individual in 10custody. If I was building a case, I might notify 11them. They would come out, physically come out, 12review the case. We could speak -- if we have an 13offender that's located outside of the U.S., then 14we'll build a case and then try to do an arrest 15warrant but, basically, I'm a go-between. I 16present my evidence to the State's Attorney's 18Q. And do you make recommendations to the 19State's Attorney's Office with respect to which 20murder charge may be viable? 21A. Initially, I do. And then once they 22make their determination, it's just them. 23Q. Do you have occasion to recommend to 24bring murder charges, or, to the opposite, say I Page 23
1don't think murder charges should be brought in 3A. I wouldn't then bring them if I brought 5Q. Okay. Do you help analyze whether a 6case is a strong or a weak case? 8Q. Do you determine whether or not the 9right person is being charged for murder? 10A. Can you say that again? 11Q. Do you try to help the State's Attorney 12determine whether they have got the right person 14A. Well, I would name that person and then 15if I found out it wasn't, I would notify them 17Q. Okay. And what about self defense, what 18role does a legal self defense issue play in terms 20A. If the individual that committed a 21homicide was valid under self defense, if it was 22reasonable and that's going, looking at a crime 23scene, speaking to witnesses, interviewing them, 24hopefully, and then determining from there. Page 24
1Q. So you'll investigate a homicide as part 2of that if there is a potential for a legal self 3defense you would investigate that too? 4A. Oh, absolutely, because it is still an 5individual that's committing a homicide against 7Q. Can you tell us a little bit about 8homicide police reports? What kind of 9documentation is involved in a homicide case? 10A. Generally speaking, a case report is 11going to be drafted by the responding officers, the 12reporting officers. There could be supplemental 13reports. There can be canvass reports. There can 14be reports for any evidence. There's evidence 15technicians that draft their own. I as an 16inspector have draft several. And anybody that is 17an outside unit that kind of contributes to the 18case potentially can draft one. 19An example of that would be if I have 20somebody that performs a photo array, they would 21draft a report for that. 22Q. Okay. And what about when a case is 23closed, is there a separate report for that? 24A. It's called a closer, yes. Page 25
1Q. Okay. All right. I'm just going to go 2ahead and show the witness what I marked Exhibit |, 3which is it's the Bates No. Joseph 13th Supp 214. 4It's the Cleared Closed Report. 5(WHEREUPON, a certain document was 6marked Deposition Exhibit No. 1, for 9Q. Do you recognize this document? 12A. That isa closer report that I drafted. 13Q. Okay. And why did you draft this 15A. To basically close the case, which ends 17Q. Well, let's walk back to the beginning 19You heard -- you testified that you 20heard that there was a shooting and then you were 21up so you got assigned the case and then what did 23A. I proceeded to the scene of the FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 26
1Q. And where was the shooting? 2A. 60 East Monroe on the 48th floor 4Q. And what were you aware of? What was 5the knowledge to the extent you can recall of what 6you were aware happened prior to your arrival at 8A. I was aware there was a shooting and an 9individual called 911 saying he was the shooter. 10Q. Were you aware that prior to the 11shooting dispatch had received calls of a 13A. Notat that time I wasn't. I became 15Q. Okay. Were you made aware that dispatch 16had received a panic alarm from the lobby? 17A. Notatthat time. I became aware later. 18Q. Okay. Were you -- okay. All right. 19When you arrived, what's the first thing 20you recall, what did you sce at the scene? 21A. I observed numerous marked squad cars 22and Chicago Fire Department personnel in front and 23then I saw Mr. Garrett Smith being escorted to a 24car by transport officers. Page 27
1Q. And when you saw Mr. Smith, did you 4Q. And what did you say? 5A. I took that opportunity to build a 6rapport. I introduced myself -- excuse me -- 7introduced myself and then I went inside the lobby. 9Q. Go ahead. Take your time. 11Q. All right. Did you plan to interview 13A. I did and that's why I introduced 15Q. Okay. When you got to the lobby, I'm 16assuming that's the first place you went to when 17you entered the building? 19Q. Was there anyone else in the lobby? 20A. Mr. Nena, Mr. Clement and several 21individuals that worked like staff members for the 23Q. And did you conduct any preliminary 24witness interviews when you first came into that Page 28
3Q. And who did you interview? 4A. I spoke to Sergeant Gilliand and the 6Q. Okay. Did you speak to any of the 7witnesses when you first got to the lobby? 8A. After afew minutes I did, but not right 10Q. Do you recall who you spoke with? 11A. I spoke with Mr. Nena. 13A. J introduced myself to Mr. Clement. 15A. I may have briefly spoke to like the 17Q. Okay. Do you recall the name of the 18building management person that you spoke with? 20Q. That's okay. Did you eventually make 21your way up to the 48th floor? 23Q. And how did you know to go to the 48th Page 29
1A. Sergeant Gilliand said that the crime 3Q. When you got up to the 48th floor, what 5A. I saw a puddle of blood just left of the 6T-hallway intersection. I saw the bullet hole in 7the baseboard just south of that and five shell 8casings in line towards the Riccio apartment. 9Q. All right. Was there any jewelry or 10anything that you noticed at that time? 11A. Yes. In front of Ms. Meng's apartment 12that is around the corner, I observed that a little 14Q. All right. What was the general 15condition of that 48th floor hallway? 16A. It was adequately lit. There was no 17security cameras, just a basic condo hallway. 18Q. Aside from the bullets and the blood 19that you mentioned, so apart from the shooting 20evidence that you observed, were there any signs of 21a struggle or disturbance? 22A. Broken jewelry on the ground could be a 23sign of a struggle. There was two blood splatters 24on the wall. That could be a sign of a struggie. FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 30
1Q. Okay. Did you go to any other floors 2when you were there that evening? 3A. I went between the 40th floor and the 4lobby. Several individuals that assisted me wen 5to the 29th floor. I did not myself. 6Q. Okay. How long did you stay at the 7Legacy building that evening? 8A. I came and went over a span of a couple 9hours. I also went to the Medical Examiner's -- 10excuse me, I went to the hospital morgue, yes, 11over a couple of hours. 12Q. And then did you have occasion to go 15Q. And so that evening into the early 16morning potentially did you have occasion to 17interview Garrett Smith? 19Q. So unlike -- I don't know what happens 20in a typical homicide investigation, per se, but is 21it fair to say that this wasn't a who-done-it? 23Q. You knew who the shooter was? Page 31
1Q. There was no question as to who fired 4Q. You had occasion to interview Garrett 5Smith. Where did that interview take place? 6A. The Area 3 detective division, 8Q. And you indicated that that interview 11Q. What did you learn from Mr. Smith about 12the sequence of events leading up to the shooting? 13A. I learned that Mr. Smith was in his home 14office when he began to hear a pounding on his 15door. He related that individual was upset and 16appeared to be breaking down the door, and that's 17when he called 911 and his front lobby desk. 18Q. All right. Then what happened next? 19A. Mr. Garrett then got his firearm and 20went down to the front desk. 21Q. Did he have a proper FOID card? 22A. Mr. Smith does have a valid FOID and 24Q. Okay. So what happened after that? Page 32
1A. After that there was a brief 2conversation. They found out that an individual 3that was on the 29th floor causing a disturbance 4that he relocated to the 48th floor. 5Q. And did he indicate who he went to the 8Q. And do you recall who went up there with 10A. I do. Mr. Smith didn't know their 11names. I know their names through interviews. It 12would be the married couple, the Bishopps, Andy 13Clement and the door guy, Mr. Nena. 14Q. Okay. Now after you spoke with 15Mr. Smith, at some point you informed him that 16Mr. Joseph had passed; is that right? 18Q. Why did you tell him that? 19A. I wanted his reaction on camera. 20Q. And what did you gauge his reaction to 22A. I thought he was emotional. 23Q. And what was your assessment of the case 24that evening after you spoke to the witnesses that Page 33
1you had spoken to and Mr. Smith? 2A. I then informed the State's Attorney's 3Office that Mr. Smith was taking a self defense 6A. That means that he was in fear so he 7pulled his fircarm and fired in fear of his life or 9Q. And so was it your impression that the 10self defense would be a legal impediment to 11pursuing a murder charge? 13Q. Now the -- can you take a look at 14Exhibit 1. Can you tell us the date that you 15submitted that case cleared report? 16A. Submitted 23, July, '25. 17Q. Okay. So that's about two years later, 18right, a little less than? 20Q. Why didn't you write a case clear report 22A. Because the closure wasn't determined by 23the State's Attorney's Office. 24Q. Okay. So can you walk us through that FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 34
1process? You called the State's Attorney's Office. 2You spoke to an Assistant State’s Attorney Ryan 3Gallagher; is that right? 5Q. And what happened next? 6A. Then our ERI recorded interview was 7uploaded to the State’s Attorney's Office to begin 8doing a transcript on that. The next morning Ryan 9Gallagher physically came to the detective division 10and I presented witnesses to ASA Gallagher. 11Q. And what was the purpose of presenting 13A. I'm essentially presenting my case. I'm 14a go-between between my witnesses and the State's 15Attorney's Office, so I present them. The State's 16Attorneys doesn't take my word for interviews. 17They do in-person interviews themselves. 18Q. Okay. And so -- but at that point you 19believed that there was a legal self defense, 22MR. DERATANY: I'm going to object on that 23question but go ahead, form. 24You can answer, Detective. Page 35
2A. I knew it was a possibility. 4Q. Did you release Mr. Smith that evening? 5A. I did not, the Cook County State's 6Attorney's Office ordered me to release him without 8Q. All right. Did -- to your knowledge, 9did the Chicago Police ever take anyone else into 10custody in connection with this homicide 11investigation after Smith was released? 13Q. Did Mr. Smith appear to have any 14injuries when you interviewed him that evening? 16Q. And what were those injuries? 17A. He had a bandaged finger, an abrasion to 18his head, abrasion to his back and both knees. 19Q. All right. What did that tell you in 20your capacity as a homicide detective? 21A. That a physical altercation somehow 23Q. And were his injuries did they appear to 24be consistent with the self defense explanation Page 36
2A. Garrett Smith related that Abnerd Joseph 3fell on top of him as he was charging him so that 4does correspond with those injuries. 5Q. All right. Now I just want to back up a 6little bit. You indicated that you interviewed 7Younan Nena, who goes by Jonah, Johah Nena, at the 8Legacy building on the night of September 14th, is 11Q. And did you understand that Mr. Nena was 12employed at the Legacy building? 13A. That's what he told me. 14Q. And what did Mr. Nena convey to you that 15he did -- what was Mr, Nena’s -- strike that. 16What did Mr. Nena convey to you that 18A. Heconveyed to me he was employed as a 19door staff. So being part of door staff he was 20getting numerous phone calls when there was a 21disturbance on the 29th floor. 22Q. And what did he do after he got those 24A. Hesent the building engineer Page 37
1Mr. Hamilton to investigate. 2Q. What happened after that? 3A. Mr. Hamilton came back and said no one 5Q. And what else did Mr. Nena convey? 6A. He then said that himself, a married 7couple, the Bishopps, Andy who helps out around the 8building, and he didn't know Garrett Smith's name 9but he referred to him as the shooter, then all 10went to the 48th floor after receiving calls from 12Q. And what did Nena tell you about what 13happened after the 48th -- after they got to the 15A. He said he observed Mr. Abnerd Joseph in 16the hallway. He said something to the effect not 17verbatim of, oh, how are you doing friend, and then 18he was attacked by Mr. Abnerd Joseph. 19Q. Was anyone else attacked according to 20Mr. Nena by Mr. Joseph? 22Q. Is it fair to say that Mr. Nena relaid 23that he had received physical blows from the FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 38
1A. Yes. He didn't know the exact amount. 2He said he was punched in the head. 3Q. And did he appear to be injured when you 4interviewed him that evening? 5A. There wasn't physical bruising but he 6definitely worked up. He had issues with his blood 7pressure from the stress, but, yeah, he was 9Q. And did Mr. Nena tell you anything else 10about what, if anything, Mr. Smith said before the 13Q. Did Mr. Nena relay or describe to you 14the nature of his relationship with Mr. Joseph 16A. He said that he says hi to him. He's 17his doorman. Sometimes they would bump fists but 18hi, how are you doing type of relationship. 19Q. Did Mr. Nena indicate that he had sought 20any medical treatment as a result of the 21altercation on the 14th? 22A. He did. After being interviewed, he 23told me he went to the doctor's office. He was Page 39
1Q. Did anyone in your investigation report 2that Nena caused or was an aggressor in the 4MS. WHITE: Objection as to the form of the 9Q. Was there ever any evidence in your 10investigation that Nena struck or attacked Joseph? 12MR. DERATANY: Objection, form. 13MR. VAIDYA: For those of you guys on Zoom, 14you can just announce who's making the objection 15for the court reporter. 16MR. DERATANY: Sure. Isn't my name on 18MS. WENGER: She's not looking this way, 19though. She's looking at the witness. 21Q. All right. Was Mr. Nena’s account 22consistent, in your opinion, with Mr. Smith's Page 40
1Q. Did you also interview the Bishopps that 4Q. And where did that interview take place? 6Q. And were they interviewed together or 9Q. And what did the Bishopps relay to you 10what happencd that evening? 11A. That they summoned the elevator to the 1248th floor to go to dinner. Once the elevator 13arrived on the 48th floor, a male black with his 14chest exposed and a robe exited the elevator and 15said something to the effect of "fucking crackers” 16and they entered that elevator and went to the 17lobby to notify the front desk. 18Q. And did they describe what happened 20A. Sure. Mrs. Bishopp said she believed 21she left her door unlocked so she wanted to go back 22up to lock her door. So the Bishopps then entered 23the elevator to head back to the 48th floor. 24Q. And did either -- excuse me, did either Page 41
1of the Bishopps observe the shooting? 2A. Mrs. Bishopp made a left turn to go to 3the apartment or condo and then Mr. Bishopp did 4observe part of the shooting. 5Q. And was the Bishopps' account, was it 6also consistent with the information you received 7from Mr. Nena and Mr. Smith? 9Q. Did you have occasion to interview an 10individual named Jareth Bent that evening? 11A. I did. It might have been the next 12early hours but as part of the continuing 14Q. Okay. Who was Mr. Bent? 15A. Mr. Bent referred himself as Abnerd 16Joseph's brother, a fraternity brother, very close. 17Q. And what, if anything, did Mr. Bent 18convey to you about Mr. Joseph that evening? 19A. I originally was going to do a 20next-of-kin notification because he was listed as 21the emergency contact brother. Then during the 22course of an elevator conversation, I figured out 23it was a fraternity brother. So then I needed to 24get contact information for his actual physical FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 42
1blood brother. So then I had a conversation with 2him where he told me for the last few weeks Abnerd 3Joseph seemed a little off. He had an extensive 4phone call with him and that he actually went to 5the building that day because he feared Abnerd. 6Joseph might jump from the building. 7Q. Wow. Anything else from Mr. Bent? 8A. He received a call from out of state 9that kind of tipped him off that Abnerd Joseph 10wasn't doing well and that's what caused him to go 12Q. Do you recall did he tell you who, if 13you recall, told him to go that evening? 15Q. All right. Now, other individuals are 16interviewed by Chicago Police that night but not 17necessarily by you, is that fair to say? 19Q. Does that include Andy Clement? 21Q. Did you have occasion to -- well, do you 22know what -- do you know what Andy Clement reported 23to police that evening? 24A. Sure. Initially, Andy Clement thought Page 43
1he fainted. We found out later that he was 2punched. He might have briefly lost consciousness 3and then he began to crawl away. 4Q. Did he also seek medical treatment for 5his injuries that evening? 7Q. Did Chicago Police have occasion to 8interview an individual by the name of Shirley Meng 11Q. And who is Shirley Meng? 12A. Shirley Meng was a resident where the 13broken jewelry was located in front of her door. 14Q. And did she provide any other evidence 16A. She did. She tendered a cell phone 17video that captured her feet but there was audio 18captured in the background. 19Q. All right. I'm going to play for the 20detective what I'm going to mark as -- or note for 21the record will be Exhibit 2. 22(WHEREUPON, a certain document was 23marked Deposition Exhibit No. 2, for Page 44
2Q. And this is the file that's marked 6Q. I'm sorry, in terms of identification, 7it's the video marked Video From Witness Can hear 10THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Weare off the record at 12(WHEREUPON, a break was taken.) > 13THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are back on the record 15(WHEREUPON, a video was 16played for the witness.) 18Q. All right. Have you seen that video 21Q. And listened to the audio? 23Q. And were you able to determine who was Page 45
1A. I assume it would be Abnerd Joseph. 2Q. All right. Was this video gathered as 3part of your investigation? 5Q. And did you provide that video to the 6State's Attorney's Office at some point? 8Q. Okay. The Chicago Police also had 9occasion that evening to interview witnesses 10Bernard Schott and Meredith Riccio, is that right? 13A. They lived in the apartment directly 14north of where the shooting occurred. 15Q. And what, if anything, were they able to 16convey or add to the investigation with regards to 17who they told you Chicago Police that evening? 18A. Bernard Schott related what he heard 19what he described as meat hitting skin or muscle 20and a person saying, stop, I have a gun, something 21to the effect of, stop, I have gun, I have a 22permit, and then he heard shots. 23Q. All right. What about Ms. Riccio? 24A. Ms. Riccio said she called the front FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 46
1desk. She called 911 and that she heard the 2disturbance outside as well. 3Q. And finally, Mr. Jim Delelio. Do you 6Q. What, if anything, did Mr. Delelio 7convey to Chicago Police that evening? 8A. Mr. Delelio resides on the 29th floor. 9He said he heard a disturbance where a guy sounded 10like he was out of his mind, something to that 14Q. All right. So I want to just walk you 15through the steps that you took with respect to 16this homicide investigation by date. 17So is it fair to say that 18September 14th, into the early morning time 19September 14th you took a number of investigative 20steps in connection with this investigation? 22Q. And that included interviews with the 23people that we discussed before, Nena, Clement, 24Shirley Meng, Bernard Schott, Meredith Riccio and Page 47
2A. And numerous police department personnel 4Q. Okay. And you also went to the hospital 7Q. There was an evidence tech who 10Q. And you obtained emergency contact 11information for Joseph from the building? 12A. It turned out to be his fraternity 13brother, but then I got the actual information from 14Jareth Bent for his family member. 15Q. And who was the family member that you 17A. Charles Delbert. He goes by Jay. 18Q. And did you talk to -- was it during 19this -- this day we're going to refer to, the 20September 14th, 15th, did you speak to him that 22A. It would have been the early morning 23hours or the next day but yes. 24Q. Okay. And an autopsy was performed? Page 48
2Q. And as part of the investigation that 3evening Chicago Police gathered surveillance 6Q. Andalso additional footage like the 7Shirley Meng video that I showed you? 9Q. And you also gathered physical evidence, 12Q. Including the shell casings and you 13recovered a weapon as well? 15Q. With respect to the jewelry, were you 16able to determine whose jewelry that was? 17A. I later found out that it was Abnerd 19Q. All right. With respect to Mr. Smith's 20gun was there a forensic analysis performed? 22Q. And did it confirm that the shooting was 23done with Mr. Smith's gun? Page 49
1Q. And then you also interviewed Mr. Smith 4Q. And you contacted the State's Attorney's 7Q. The State's Attorney's Office sent an 8Assistant State's Attorney and there were 9additional interviews that were performed? 11Q. At that time, September 14th and 14Q. And that would have included 15reinterviews with Nena? 19Q. Both Bishopps, rather. 23Q. And you were present for all of those FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 50
2Q. And is it fair to say that the 3interviews were gencrally consistent with the other 4information you had gathered earlier in the 7Q. All right. At some point say, let's 8say, approximately on or about September 28, 2023, 9did you obtain Andy Clement's after-visit summary, 12Q. And you forwarded those to the State's 15Q. All right. Now December 11, 2023, on or 16about that time, did you have occasion to obtain 17the decedent's cell phone? 19Q. And how did you come to be in possession 21A. Jason Friedl from Romanucci & Blandin 22law firm tendered it to me. 23Q. And did he -- did you have an 24understanding as to why this phone was being Page 51
3Q. And what was the reason? 4A. The family located the phone and they 5found that there was an audio file of Abnerd Joseph 7Q. And did you have a data extraction 10Q. And were you able to locate audio from 13Q All right. According to your reports, 14it looks like on or about February 8, 2024, you 15contacted the State's Attorney's Office for an 16update in the case; is that right? 18Q. So this was now several months after the 19shooting had occurred. Do you recall what was 20the -- what was the update? 21A. Shirley Meng, they wanted to speak to 22her, since they hadn't yet, and they also wanted to 23speak to any individuals that had their door Page 52
1Q. And did they indicate why they wanted to 2speak to these individuals? 4Q. All right. Fast forward to May 1, 2024, 5is it fair to say on or about that day you had a 6meeting with the State's Attorney's Office? 8Q. Specifically with Assistant State's 11Q. Can you tell us what was discussed at 13A. We just essentially went over the file. 14Since ASA Gallagher came out to the scene --- I'm 15sorry, to the detective division, he would relay 16information to Jenny McCarty. She would make the 17ultimate call as a supervisor, so we essentially 18went over the case file together. 19Q. And did it seem -- now it's May. It's 20not quite a year but it's getting further past a 21year from when the initial shooting happened, why 22the State's Attorney hadn't made a decision by this 24MR. WANGLER: Objection, lack of foundation. Page 53
1You can answer if you know. 3A. I believe they wanted to talk to more 4witnesses like the phone caller Kacey, to Jareth 5Bent and the rest I can't recall. 7Q. Did they want to reinterview any of the 8witnesses that ASA Gallagher had already 9interviewed or they wanted to just interview more 11A. Interview more witnesses. 12Q. Did you get any sense or indication that 13there was any type of pressure to charge this case 14as an unlawful homicide? 15A. Pressure by who? I don't understand. 16Q. Did you get a sense that the State's 17Attorney's Office was under pressure to authorize 18this as a murder charge? 20Q. All right. A few days later on or about 21May 3, 2024, did you receive a toxicology report 22under Work Order 23362891? 24Q. Do you recall what was the -- what did FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 54
1you learn from that report? 2A. I learned that Abnerd Joseph in his 3blood had a derivative of cocaine, Adderall and two 4types of THC commonly found in Cannibis. 5Q. Was the toxicology report consistent 6with the witness accounts of how Mr. Joseph was 8MR. DERATANY: Objection, requires 12A. The witnesses told me that Abnerd didn't 13seem appear to be himself, that would be explaining 14that, but they didn't say that that was in his 17Q. I guess my question is, did their 18accounts match up with what you now learned was 19somebody who had drugs in his system? 20MR. DERATANY: Objection, form. 23A. I spoke to the medical examiner that did 24the autopsy and he said it wouldn't kill you but it Page 55
1would be consistent with somebody's behavior not 4Q. Okay. Now, later that month, the 5State’s Attorney's Office had wanted you to arrange 6for interviews with individuals Bent, Schott 7and Riccio, is that right? 9Q. And they all effectively declined. They 10decided they didn't want to meet with the State's 11Attorney's Office voluntarily? 12A. They initially set up an appointment but 13then they canceled, yes. 14Q. And what did you do after that? 15A. Twould have to draft subpoenas and 19Q. Grand jury subpoenas for all three of 22Q. And were you able to serve all three? 24Q. Did you also draft a grand jury subpoena Page 56
3Q. Were you able to serve her? 5Q. What you do with the grand jury 7A. Lultimately slid it under her door 8since I couldn't locate her after, I would say, 10Q. We spoke previously about a James 11Delelio. He met with the State's Attorney's 14Q. And after that, did you have occasion to 15interview Schott and Riccio with the State's 18Q. Did that take place on or about 21Q. And Jareth Bent was also interviewed 23A. Correct, I believe all within a day or Page 57
1Q. All right. Did Shirley Meng appear 2before the State's Attorney's Office? 4Q. September 4th, did you try to issue 7Q. Did she respond to that subpoena? 8A. I was unable to serve her. 9Q. All right. December 30, 2024, you met 10again with the State's Attorney's Office, is that 13Q. And did you meet with ASA Jennifer 16Q. And what was discussed at that meeting? 17A. I updated her about Shirley Meng being, 18you know, unable to give her the grand jury 19subpoena. We talked about the case, where we were 20at with the new witnesses and their testimony and 21that was just basically an updated meeting. 22Q. Did she seem that she had enough 23information to make a charging decision at that FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 58
1MR. DERATANY: Objection, requires 4A. It's not for me to determine. 6Q. Did she indicate to you whether or not 7she had -- she was able to make a charging decision 9A. I mean, she didn't, so you can assume 10that she wasn't able to. 11Q. Did she ask you to get any more 14Q. January 2, 2025, did you execute a 15search warrant on Mr. Smith's phone? 17Q. Why did you do that? 18A. Mr. Smith said in the recorded interview 19that he called 911 and was texting with 911, so I 20just wanted to verify that. 21Q. Was that on your own initiative or did 22the State's Attorneys ask you to get that warrant? 23A. The State's Attorneys requested it. 24Q. Okay. It looks like there was another Page 59
1contact with the State's Attorney's Office ASA 2McCarty on February 7, 2025. Can you tell us what 3update you had on that date? 4A. Sure. I informed ASA McCarty that I was 5being subpoenaed for reports in this matter that I 6would have to send them. 7Q. Being subpoenaed by whom? 8A. Attorneys, I believe, for Abnerd 10Q. Okay. Anything else? 12Q. So this February 7th call was not 13necessarily a criminal case update but it was just 14to give a heads up that civil subpoenas were 16A. That and I asked if there was any 17decisions made and, you know, kind of almost an 19Q. You were seeking an update from her? 21Q. And did you get an update from her? 22A. Eventually, yes. I don't believe it was 24Q. Okay. It looks like you finally Page 60
1presented in your report it indicates you did a 2full case presentation, if I'm not mistaken, to 3ASA McCarty on March 7, 2025, is that right? 5Q. What ts a full case presentation? 6A. Just any outliers we spoke about such as 7that cell phone you mentioned, and, basically, 8asked her if there is anything else they needed. 9Q. And was there anything else? 11Q. And did you, in fact, were the charges 12then rejected on that date? 14Q. Do you -- I mean, from your experience, 15is that typical in terms of how long it would take 16with respect to getting a decision from the State's 18A. I mean, every case is different, so I 19couldn't tell you. It's what they want evidence 20wise and how it progresses so every case is 22Q. Are there any other -- other than the 23steps that I have walked you through just now, are 24there any other major investigative steps that you Page 61
1took in connection with this homicide 3A. I just processed the scene, recover 4evidence with the evidence technicians. I mean, 5that’s the major, all of that was inventoried. 7Q. All right. As part of your duties as a 8homicide detective, do you have to interact with 9and give updates to the family? 11Q. And did you have occasion to speak with 12a Mr. Delbert Charles after the initial phone call 15Q. All right. About how many times did you 16say you spoke with Delbert Charles? 17A. I would say approximately three to four 18and then I basically spoke with the attorneys after 19that and he would be on the phone with them almost 20like a conference call. 21Q. So were those initial three or four 22times with him by himself or are you saying three 23or four times total, including with attorneys? 24A. The first time was actually at the FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 62
1detective division. I spoke with him and his 2brother in person. And then it would be two times 3on the phone and then maybe once more with the 4attorneys and then a lot of attorneys phone calls 6Q. Okay. When you first spoke to Jay, 7Mr. Delbert Charles, did he indicate whether or not 8Mr. Joseph had any mental health issues? 9A. He said he was taking a prescription for 10Adderall but no known mental health issues that he 12Q. In your report it indicates that Charles 13was concerned with Joseph becoming mentally 14exhausted, is that accurate? 16Q. What -- what -- excuse me, what else, if 17anything, did he say with respect to that 19A. Jt was just pertaining to work. 20Q. Okay. What was Mr. Joseph's employment? 21A. He was the Assistant Dean of Culture at 22a charter school down the block from his home. 23Q. And did you and Mr. Charles speak about 24what was exhausting him at work? Page 63
2Q. Did he elaborate or indicate anything in 3particular at work that was potentially exhausting 6Q. In those subsequent phone calls, well, 7what else did -- in the first phone call, what 8else, if anything, did Mr. Delbert Charles relay 10A. Nothing else that I can recall. 11Q. In subsequent phone calls, did you learn 12any additional information or ask questions of 13Mr. Delbert Charles in furtherance of your 16Q. What kinds of questions did you ask him? 17A. Just general questions. I found out 18Abnerd Joseph spoke multiple languages. He -- I 19found out, you know, where he went to college, why 20he moved for employment, things like that, just 21general background questions. 22Q. In those other phone calls before the 23lawyers got involved, can you recall approximately 24when those would have occurred? Page 64
1A. When Garrett Smith was released I left a 2voicemail on my day off for Jay to inform him that 3the State's Attorney's wanted him released without 4charging, and then I was called back after that by 5several family members basically essentially on a 7Q. Okay. You mentioned an occasion where 8you met with Delbert Charles in person at the 11Q. Do you recall what -- approximately what 12month or year that was? 13A. Oh, that would have been a day or two 15Q. So approximately September of 2023? 17Q. And who was with Mr. Delbert Charles at 19A. Abnerd Joseph and Delbert Charles 21Q. Okay. And what was discussed in that 23A. I basically gave him an update on the 24case, told him where we were at, how it progresses. Page 65
1I explained the steps of the Cook County State's 2Attorney's Office and I informed them how it's 3their decision for charging. 4Q. All right. If I'm reading your one of 5your supplemental reports correctly, on or about 6December 5, 2023, it looks like you spoke with the 7family and the family attorney. Was that on a 10Q. And do you recall the name of the 11attorney that was in the meeting? 13Q. And do you recall who else took part in 15A. He mentioned Jay was on the phone. I 16didn't ask who else was on the line and he didn't 18Q. All right. What, if anything, did you 19learn on that December 2023 conference call? 20A. That most likely would have been I 21learned that there was a phone recovered by the 23Q. Okay. And subsequent to that, you met 24with I believe you testified attorney Jason Freidl FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 66
1from Romanucci & Blandin? 3Q. And you obtained the cell phone from 6Q. Do you know if Mr. Charles was involved 7in the decision to turn over the cell phone? 9Q. Did Mr. Charles ever express to you an 10expectation or a wish regarding whether or not 11Garrett Smith should be charged? 12A. I believe he said he wanted justice, 13whether what his definition of justice is I don't 15Q. What, if anything, did you tell 16Mr. Charles or the rest of the family about whether 17criminal charges were being pursued? 18A. Oh, they were. I told them they were 20Q. Okay. Did you give the family or 21Mr. Charles specifically any indication as to 22whether or not you expected the State's Attorney to 24A. I didn't -- I didn't talk about Page 67
1authorizing charges. | talked about how Garrett 2Smith took a self defense claim. So I kind of told 3them maybe they can look at some cases in Cook 4County involving self defense just to educate 6Q. Okay. Now, with respect to the State's 7Attorney's ultimate decision to reject charges for 8First Degree Murder on or about March 7, 2025, did 9you communicate that decision to the family? 10A. After the family requested I speak 11through an attorney, I notified the attorneys at 12Blandin & Romanucci and they asked if they could 13relay how they have been the information. 14Q. I'm sorry. Can you say that again? 15A. So after several phone calls with Jay, 16Blandin & Romanucci were designated as the 17attorneys and all contact would go through them. 18So I just did the same exact thing. I notified the 19attorneys involved and they wished to tell Jay. 20Q. All right. So you never spoke or 21communicated that directly to Mr. Charles? 23Q. Okay. Are you aware of whether or not 24the State's Attorney's Office ever met with the Page 68
2A. ASA Jen McCarty relayed to me that I 3could give the family and the family's attorney her 4phone number and she would speak with them whether 5they met in person I don't know. 6Q. Okay. You mentioned that on or about 7September 2023 you met with Delbert Charles and 8Mr. Joseph's other brother, was that Brian 11Q. What, if anything, do you recall 12relaying about what you told Brian Bien-aime at 14A. I informed him that there was a police 15officer in front of Abnerd Joseph's door. That we 16couldn't consider it a crime scene but we don't 17know what may or may not have started in the 18apartment so we had to almost protect it as like a 19crime scene. That they wouldn't be allowed access 20to the apartment whether we were very, very certain 21there wasn't a crime scene in there. 22Q. Okay. Did you ever indicate that the 23police should have gotten there sooner to Page 69
2Q. Did you ever indicate that the Chicago 3Police Department did not take the initial call 6Q. And did you ever indicate to 7Mr. Bien-aime that if police had responded sooner 8his brother would still be alive? 10Q. All right. Based on your investigation, 11what did you ultimately conclude about Abnerd 12Joseph's behavior in the hours leading up to the 15MR. DERATANY: Objection. Let me make an 16objection. It requires a medical conclusion, form, 18MR. VAIDYA: You can proceed. 20A. I had several witnesses that tell me 21that he was saying things that weren't realistic 22with a break from reality and that his behavior 23became aggressive in that hallway. FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 70
2Q. Were you made aware that Mr. Joseph was 3heard saying things like, you can't kill me, I'm 6Q. And that he was observed wearing a 7bathrobe and behaving erratically? 9Q. That he was pounding violently on doors 12Q. All right. Now I'm going to play -- now 13I'm going to play what's marked 1420230914190219.M4-A, which I believe is audio 15recovered from the decedent's phone. 16(WHEREUPON, a certain document was 17marked Dowling Deposition Exhibit 18No. 3, for identification.) 19(WHEREUPON, an audio file was 20played for the witness.) 21Q. I'm stopping it at 16 seconds and I'm 22going to fast forward it to 2 minutes. 23(WHEREUPON, an audio file was 24played for the witness.) Page 71
2Q. I'm stopping the recording at 4:15. 3Detective, do you recall this recording? 5Q. Have you listened to it before? 7Q. And is it something that you obtained 8from Mr. Joseph's phone? 10Q. And did you forward this onto the 11State's Attorney's Office? 13Q. Okay. I'm going to fast forward now to 14the recording at 17:33. 15As part of your investigation, were you 16able to determine who was speaking, who is the 17voice that we're hearing? 18A. The family said it was Abnerd Joseph. 20(WHEREUPON, an audio file was 21played for the witness.) 23Q. All right. I'm stopping the recording Page 72
1Detective, do you recall hearing this 2part of the audio when you were conducting your 5Q. Andcan you tell what is going on in the 7A. I can't tell. I just hear banging and 9Q. Okay. As part of your investigation, do 10you recall having contact with individual an 11Deborah Romero, the property manager at Sudler 13A. Yes. Deborah gave us authorization so I 14can interview Nena in one of their -- basically 17A. That was initially when I responded to 19Q. Back in September of 2023? 21Q. Okay. What, if anything, did you learn 22about the building security protocols with respect 23to what happened on September 2023? 24A. Building security protocols? Page 73
1Q. If you learned anything. 4A. I know Nena was the door staff member 5and he pushed the panic button. 6Q. Okay. Did you learn whether anyone 7attempted to contact police prior to the shooting? 10A. That was Mr. Nena, he called 911 as 12Q. Okay. And you were able to obtain lobby 13security footage from that evening? 15Q. What, if anything, did the security 16footage help establish with respect to your 18A. It happened establish that the Bishopps, 19Andy Clement and Garrett Smith were in that lobby 20speaking with Mr. Nena and they left the lobby, 21went to the elevator bank and boarded the elevator 24A. Not that I recall at the moment. FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 74
1Q. All right. Now, with respect to the 2State's Attorneys charging decision, you first 3contacted the State's Attorneys or the Chicago 4Police first contacted the State’s Attorneys with 5respect to First Degree Murder charges indicating 6that First Degree Murder charges would be sought. 7Why did you use that terminology? 8A. It's sought because I present the case 9to them and they make the final determination on 10what charges would be applicable. 11Q. All right. Now so were you actually 12recommending in your professional capacity as a 13homicide detective that the State's Attorney 14proceed with First Degree Murder charges? 17A. Because a human being killed another 19Q. What about why First Degree Murder? 20A. Because he pulled a trigger ona 22Q. Did you ever consider a Second Degree 24A. In the initial presentation of the case, Page 75
3A. I go for the highest charge possible. 4Q. But even at the beginning, you saw that 5there was a potential impediment to the First 6Degree Murder charge, right? 8Q. And that being the self defense? 10Q. All right. If-- when ASA Gallagher 11conducted interviews, did you ask him to approve 12the murder charge on that date back in September of 14A. It's not so much like me asking for 15charges. I present the case. He evaluates and 17Q. And ASA Gallagher put the case or the 18State's Attorney put the case on continuing 19investigation or CI status, is that right? 21Q. And what does that mean? 22A. Continuing investigation. So they want 23to speak to those witnesses I mentioned earlier, 24Q. Okay. Is that common? Page 76
1A. Again, it's a case-by-case basis but 2it's fairly common in a murder investigation, sure. 3Q. Did you agree or disagree with the 4decision to reject charges that was made on 6A. I don't agree or disagree. It's 7whatever charges they reject or approve. 8Q. Following he rejection of the charges 9you requested that the case be placed into 10exceptionally clear closed other exceptional bar to 11prosecute status. What does that mean? 12A. That means the State's Attorney rejected 13the charge, essentially. 14Q. Okay. In your professional opinion, did 15the evidence support a finding of self defense by 17MR. DERATANY: I'm going to object on the 18basis that he’s not an expert witness. He's not 19been qualified as 213 (f)(3), form, foundation. Page 77
2Q. It was a valid self defense? 4Q. Did you find any facts or evidence 5that in your view would undermine a self defense 8MR. DERATANY: Same objection. Note a 12Q. Now you never presented evidence to the 13State's Attorney's Office for charges against Jonah 16Q. And you never investigated Andy Clement 21Q. Did you find any evidence to suggest 22there was any kind of criminal conspiracy involving 23Nena Clement, the Bishopps and Smith? FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 78
1Q. Is it fair to say that your 2investigation concluded that Joseph was the 4A. The initial aggressor, yes. 5Q. And that Joseph was impaired by multiple 7MS. WHITE: Objection, calls for a medical 11A. Sorry, I received a toxicology report 12that said there were drugs in Abnerd Joseph's 15Q. And again, you had found no basis to 16pursue criminal charges for conspiracy? 18MR. VAIDYA: All right. I don’t have any 19other questions at this time. 20MR. DERATANY: All right. I cross noticed 21this, so I'll go next. I don't have very much. 22THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Do you mind if we take a 24MR. DERATANY: Ofcourse. Page 79
1THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This marks the end of media 2No. 1. The time is 12:27 p.m. SWE are off the 4(WHEREUPON, a break was taken.) 5THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This 12:37 p.m. we are on 9Q. Good afternoon, Detective Dowling. My 10name is Jay Paul Deratany. I represent the family 11members in the defense of the defamation case 13So it's limited. I'm going to limit my 14questions as best I can to the defamation case and 15ask questions that pertain or would be relevant to 17You said you were trained. In your 18training, you said you were trained on the law toa 21Q. And how much training did you have on 23A. It’s progressive throughout my 19 years. 24Q. So you have had pretty extensive Page 80
1training on the different levels of murder, for 2example. And I think you went through it with 3counsel. You talked about First Degree Murder, 4Second Degree Murder, negligent homicide and 5involuntary manslaughter. 6You had quite a bit of training on the 7differences of those -- between those charges? 9Q. And would it be correct that there is no 10statute of limitations in Illinois on a murder 13Q. And would it be correct to say that if 14you receive further information or new information, 15even if a case is closed, generally, and it 16indicated that a murder charge was warranted, you 17would reopen that investigation and may in fact 18recommend murder charges and the State's Attorneys 19may then proceed with murder charges? 20A. Yes, that’s a possibility. 21Q. Okay. But you said you make an 22investigation recommendation and charge but the 23State's Attorney makes a decision on charges, Page 81
1A. Yes, When I notify the State's 2Attorney's Office that an individual is in custody 3oracase is progressing, that's when I make my 5Q. And as a detective, you want to take 6your time and investigate and talk to all of the 7witnesses that could possibly have any relevance to 10Q. And you're not going to rush as a 11detective with 19 years almost 20 years of 12experience and the training and education you've 13had, you are going to take the proper amount of 14time, even if that takes one to two years, because 15it's a potential murder charge, correct? 16MR. KING: Objection. Objection to the form, 17calls for speculation and unclear. There's 18multiple components of the question. 19MR. DERATANY: I think he knows what his 20education level is. Go ahead. 22A. Yes, a case could progress, yes. 24Q. It's not unusual for a case to take -- a FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 82
1murder case investigation to take a year or two in 2Chicago, would that be correct? 3A. I wouldn't classify it as unusual, no. 4Q. And we spoke about the differences 5between First Degree Murder and Second Degree 6Murder. What was the difference between a 7negligent homicide charge and involuntary 9A. Hypothetically, speaking negligent would 10be something your actions are doing like I talked 11about earlier, playing with a gun and then | kill 13Q. Okay. And involuntary manslaughter? 14A. Like I spoke earlier, I testified 15earlier that an individual strikes another 16individual and then that causes a murder of a 18Q. And you said -- you used -- when you use 19the word homicide, do you often use that 20synonymously with the word murder? 21A. I'm a homicide investigator but murder 22is a charge, a state charge that I seek. 23Q. And in terms of your knowledge and 24experience with the law, you wouldn't expect lay Page 83
1people to have the same knowledge, correct? 2MS. WENGER: Objection, speculation. 3MR. WANGLER: Objection, speculation. You can 5MR. DERATANY: Let me ask a different 6question. Let me lay a foundation. 8Q. In 20 years of experience, have you 9talked to many individuals in your investigations 10for murder, Second Degree Murder, involuntary 13Q. And do they sometimes use the words 14murder and homicide and manslaughter in a way that 15would be different than the way you would use those 18MR. KING: Objection, without listing each 19individual specific instance that you're referring 20to. The generalization is inappropriate and so 21I'll object to the form of the question. 22MR. DERATANY: Generalization is 23inappropriate? Is that an objection? Page 84
2A. Can you ask that again? I apologize. 4Q. Sure. When you are talking to lay 5people and you are talking to individuals that are 6not police officers or State's Attorneys, would it 7be correct that they often times use the word 8homicide, murder or killing differently than the 11MR. KING: Objection to the form -- are you 14MR. KING: I didn’t mean to interrupt you 16I'll object to the form of the question. 17It's undefined terms and it calls for 18generalizations and speculation. You need 19definitions if you are going to ask broad 21MR. DERATANY: Don't tell me how to ask 23MR. KING: I'm not I'm telling you how not to Page 85
1MR. DERATANY: Don't tell me how not to mak 2objections or we'll call the Judge. We can call 3Judge Flanagan. That would be fine. 4MS. WENGER: Judge Flanagan is not on this 6MR. DERATANY: Don't tell me how to ask 7questions. Go ahead, sir. 9A. I wouldn't use the word often, but I can 10say it's a potentially possibility. 12Q. In other words, you are more as a police 13officer -- well, as a detective you are going to 14use the terms in a much more accurate fashion than 15the general population? 17(WHEREUPON, a certain document was 18marked Deposition Exhibit No. 4, for 21Q. And I want you to take a look at your 22report, which is now I guess marked as 23Exhibit No. 4, and I just want to lay the FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 86
1Is that the report that you prepared in 2the course of your investigation? 3A. Yes, this is a progress report I 5Q. Okay. And what is the date of that 7A. It was submitted on December 5th 8approved on December 7th. 9Q. Okay. And as of December 7th, the 10offense classification reclassification in this 11report on page 1 is homicide, slash, First Degree 12Murder. Would that be correct? 14Q. And this is, by the way, a report kept 15in the ordinary course of business, correct? 17Q. And so as of December of 2023, you were 18investigating Mr. Smith for homicide and First 19Degree Murder, correct? 21Q. And going down further -- and by 22December you had conducted some investigation 23already but the investigation had not yet been Page 87
2Q. In fact, you were gathering evidence and 3speaking to witnesses at that point including 4family members, correct? 6Q. All right. And then would it be correct 7that at any time a -- even up to the present, if 8you found additional information that would lead 9you to charge the individual that you initially 10suspected or were investigating for murder, you 11would rebring those charges? 12MS. WENGER: Objection, speculation. 13MR. KING: Objection, calls for speculation. 15Q. Is that true, Detective? 16A. If I have new information or new 17evidence, I can open up a case and present charges. 18Q. Okay. And you could reopen a case in 192027, 2028, 2030, really, at any time. That's 20basically because there is no statute of 21limitations on a murder charge, correct? 23Q. Is there -- is there a statute of 24limitation on Second Degree Murder? Page 88
2Q. Okay. And I think you said if I quote 3you, this is still an individual speaking 4committing a homicide against another individual. 5So that's what you initially thought during your 6investigation with regard to Mr. Smith, correct? 8Q. And the closed clear report was dated 11Q. And that was prepared by the State's 14Q. Oh that was prepared by yourself. Okay. 15Is that the official date of the closing of the 18Q. Now, there was some discussion, I'll 19turn to that, of a -- I think it was a May 1, 2024 20meeting where you went over the file with the 21Assistant State's Attorney at that time? 23Q. And at that time I think you said you 24were still gathering evidence and interviewing more Page 89
1witnesses there, correct? 3Q. So May 1, 2024, Mr. Smith was still 4under investigation for First Degree Murder, 7Q. And in March -- I think you said on 8March 7, 2025, there was a full case presentation, 11Q. That's when it was decided to reject the 12charges of first degree murder? 14Q. Was there any decision, sir, on whether 15acharge would be brought for negligent homicide or 16involuntary manslaughter was that at all discussed? 17A. The State's Attorney thought that a 18rejection across the board would be valid due to 19disproving a self defense claim. 20Q. Because in the law it would be difficult 21to prove -- disprove a self defense claim given all 22of the facts that were before them? 23A. That's from ASA Jen McCarty, yes, sir. 24Q. Did you ever express any opinion FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 90
1agreeing or disagreeing with that? 2A. I don't give an opinion. I just accept 4Q. Okay. Have you been involved with one 5ASA has a different opinion than another ASA as to 6whether or not they can proceed with a particular 7charge of murder or Second Degree Murder? 8A. Not that I can recall. 9Q. Criminal charges were being pursued all 10the way up through at least March 7, 2025, correct? 12Q. And no decision was made up through that 13point as to whether or not to charge or -- strike 15Mr. Smith was still under investigation 16for Murder | as of March 7, 2025, correct? 17MS. WENGER: Objection, asked and answered. 21Q. I want to ask you a couple questions 22about the actual investigation. 23You referenced earlier about the doors 24on the 29th floor and then the 48th floor. Would Page 91
1it be correct -- or strike that, 2Did you find any evidence of any broken 3doors on the 28th -- I'm sorry, 29th floor or 48th 5A. I did not find any broken doors, no. 6Q. So even though there was indication or 7statements that Abnerd Joseph pounded on the door, 8no door was broken, correct? 13Q. You referenced earlier there was some 14questions about a gentleman being punched. I don't 15know if that was Mr. Nena or Andy Clement. The 16question sort of skipped around there. 17Did you see any evidence, any actual 18physical evidence of Joseph -- or Mr. Nena being 20A. I didn't see any abrasions or bruises at 21the time I interviewed him, no. 22Q. Okay. Did you also interview Andy 24A. No. My Sergeant, Sergeant Coleman, Star Page 92
2Q. Okay. So we were talking about Mr. Nena 4So it would be correct you didn't see 5any blood coming from Mr. Nena's head or any 6bruising or any abrasion on his head and you would 7have looked at that, correct? 9Q. And there was no bandage on his head at 10the time you interviewed him, correct? 12Q. Did you ever determine why Mr. Smith 13decided to go back upstairs to the 48th floor? 14MS. WENGER: Objection, calls for speculation. 18Q. Okay. And what evidence did you -- what 20A. I learned he wanted to help the doorman, 22Q. And at the time that he went up to the 2348th floor, there was no police present, correct? Page 93
1Q. But the police -- was it your 2understanding that the police had already been 5Q. And as a detective, is it the policy and 6procedure of the Chicago Police Department that 7individuals should not go to a potential crime 8scene but should wait for the police? 9MR. VAIDYA: Objection to form. 13A. Accrime scene would indicate that a 14crime has already occurred. I can't speculate what 15type of crimes occurred, what -- you know, what's 17MR. DERATANY: Let me rephrase the question. 20Q. If there is a potential of a crime 21occurring in the present, is it the recommendation 22of yourself, as a detective, that an individual not 23go investigate what's happening themself but wait FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 94
6MS. WENGER: Calls for speculation and 7incomplete hypothetical. 9A. Me as a detective I would -- that's a 10tough one. I don't know. I do not know. 12Q. Well, the police are trained to conduct 13investigations of potential crimes, correct? 17Q. Okay. And it's your understanding that 18the doorman had hit the panic button and then 19Mr. Smith decided after that to go upstairs to the 2048th floor. Would that be correct? 21MS. WENGER: Objection, form. 22MR. KING: Objection to the form of the 23question, inconsistent with the evidence. Page 95
2A. Mr. Nena first notified 911 via a 3telephone and after the shooting, he hit the panic 6MR. DERATANY: I see. Okay, you're right. I 9Q. Sohecalled 911 and then Mr. Smith went 10upstairs to the 48th floor from the lobby, correct? 11MS. WENGER: Objection, form. 13Q. Is that your understanding. Let me 15Is that your understanding of the 17A. Those two chain events, yes, there was a 18911 call and then they went to the 48th floor. 19Q. Did you determine from any of your 20conversations how much time elapsed between the 911 21call and the time that Mr. Smith decided or went up 23MR. KING: Are you talking about the first 911 Page 96
2MR. KING: Okay. Thank you. 4A. Through the course of investigation, I 5learned by getting the 911 actual audio tapes and 6an Excel spreadsheet response of those times. 8Q. And what's your understanding as to how 9much time elapsed between the first 911 call and 10the time that Mr. Smith went up to the 48th floor? 11A. If I recall it was all under half an 13Q. Was it more than ten minutes after the 14first 911 call that he went up? 16Q. So at least ten minutes elapsed between 17the 911 calli and the time that he went upstairs? 19Q. And do you typically advise individuals 20not to confront an individual who may be going 21through a mental break? 22MS. WENGER: Objection, form. 23MR. WEISS: Objection, form. Page 97
3A. I don't advise any individuals. I just 6Q. Okay. Well, as a detective, would it be 7correct that you don't like -- you don’t want 8individuals to take police matters into their own 10MS. WENGER: Objection, form. 13A. What would you define as police matters? 14I don't understand the question. 16Q. Okay. Typically and customarily, 17individuals are instructed to -- strike that. Let 18me rephrase the question and ask a background 20Are you familiar with listening to 911 23Q. The protocol of 911? FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 98
1Q. Okay. When somebody calls 911 and they 2report a crime or something occurring, is it your 3understanding from listening from your years of 4listening to 911 calls that typically and 5customarily the 911 operator's advise the person 6making the call to stay in a safe location and not 7investigate or go into the area where the potential 9MS. WENGER: Objection, form. 13A. Yes, I have heard that before. 15Q. Just put it in typical terms the custom 16and practice is, hey, wait for the police, we do 17the investigation, right? 18MS. WENGER: Objection, form. 23A. I haven't heard those specific words. Page 99
2Q. I'm talking about a general gist, the 3general public should not go into a situation where 4acrime is potentially going to occur or somebody 5is having an issue where a crime could be occurring 6and they are supposed to wait for the place? 8MR. KING: Form of the question, calls for 13MR. DERATANY: Everybody knows this but that's 14allright. He's answered the question. I'll go 17Q. Now you said you referred to the name 18Joseph Bent, was that a name that you had listed? 20Q. Jareth Bent. Was it Jared or Jareth? 22Q. Jareth. And he was listed as an 24A. For the building at 60 East Monroe for Page 100
1Abnerd Joseph, yes, he was the emergency contact. 3And he was listed as a brother, correct? 5Q. But you came to find out he was a 6fraternity brother and not a biological brother, 9Q. And the gentleman with the name Kacey, I 10missed the last name of that person? 11A. I don't know Kacey's last name. 12Q. Oh, okay. That was another fraternity 15Q. And what was his -- what was your 16mention of his involvement? 17A. He called Jareth Bent to have him check 19Q. So your understanding is based on Abnerd 20listing Jareth Bent as an emergency contact and 21referencing Kacey, that his fraternity brothers 22were involved with his care, correct? 23MS. WENGER: Objection, form. 24MR. WANGLER: Objection. Page 101
2A. I don't know about his care. I know 3that they were very close in a relationship. 5Q. Okay. And how did you learn that they 6were very close in relationship? 7A. I spoke to Jareth Bent and Jay. 8Q. And both of them indicated that several 9of his -- or some of his fraternity brothers were 10very close to Abnerd Joseph? 11MS. WENGER: Objection, form. 13A. That's my understanding, yes. 15Q. Okay. And they referred to each other 18MR. DERATANY: I just have a few more 20In May of 2024, the tox report -- the 21toxicology report was still pending, correct? 23Q. And that's another -- that's certainly 24part -- an important part of the investigation into FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 102
1the murder charges against Abnerd Joseph, I mean, 2murder charges against Mr. Smith? 3A. It would indicate if the behavior of 4Abnerd Joseph was warranted? 5Q. Would it indicate to you whether or 6not -- would it point to you whether or not self 7defense is a valid defense or not? 8A. Garrett Smith doesn't know the 9toxicology results of Abnerd Joseph, so no. 10Q. Let me ask you the question simply put. 11What's the importance of the toxicology 12report as in terms of your investigation? 13A. It validates Abnerd Joseph's behavior. 14Q. Okay. So you would not want to close 15the murder investigation without receiving a 16toxicology report, correct? 17A. In any investigation? That depends. 18Q. In this investigation. 20Q. And you also were drafting subpoenas for 21the grand jury in July of 2024, I think you said, 23A. I can't remember if it was July but it 24was about that time on or about them. Page 103
1Q. And was a grand jury impaneled? 2A. They were at the time, yes. 3Q. Anda grand jury -- did the grand jury 7A. The State's Attorney did their interview 8outside the grand jury's room. 9Q. Whose decision is it to submit the 10potential charges to a grand jury? 11A. The State's Attomey's Office. 12Q. Do you agree or disagree or is that 13something that's outside of your purview? 15Q. And I'm sorry if I don't understand this 16correctly, but was the grand jury actually 17impaneled and then discharged without any charges 18being brought before them or were they not yet 20A. At any given time there might be two or 21three grand juries going at once. They were going 22during this time but not for this case. 24So there was a grand jury that could Page 104
1have been assigned to this case but they were 2not -- but the charges were not brought to them. 3Did I say that correctly? 4A. The subpoena was to conduct an 5interview. So, no, they weren't brought before the 7Q. Okay. And in August of 2024, there was 8an interview of Jareth Bent; is that correct? 10Q. And then in September, I think it was 11September 4th of 2024, more subpoenas were being 12issued and you were having meetings with ASA -- 13with the ASA, correct, about Shirley Meng? 14A. I don't know if it was plural subpoenas 16Q. So there was still a question about 17an outstanding subpoena and a meeting -- I'm trying 18to sort of condense it to get you out of here -- a 19meeting with ASA about Shirley Meng and there was 20still an outstanding subpoena. 21So you were -- this was an ongoing 22investigation into the charge of First Degree Page 105
1Q. And in January of 2025, you had issued a 2warrant or you had requested a warrant for 3Mr. Smith's phone, correct? 4A. Asearch warrant, yes. 5Q. Asearch warrant. Yeah. 6So by January of '25, and in February of 725, when you received the information back, still 8no decision as to whether or not a charge of First 9Degree -- he was still under investigation for 10First Degree Murder, correct? 12Q. Counsel asked you questions about 13Delbert Charles, Delbert J. Charles, and I think 14you indicated that you spoke with him about three 15or four times. Do you recall that? 16A. One-on-one or with one or two people, 17yes, and then more with the attorney if he was on 18the conference call, yes. 19Q. Okay. And Detective, did you ever sec 20any of the posts on either Tik Tok or whatever the 21platform was, Instagram, or a site called Justice 22for Abnerd, did you see any of those posts? 24Q. Would it have made any difference to you FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 106
1in your investigation of the murder charges? 2A. Only if it had anything of evidence. 3Q. Do you -- ifan individual -- well -- 5Was Delbert J. Charles when you spoke 6with him either the first or second time, was he 7upset about the murder -- or about the killing of 10Q. Would you judge that based upon your 19 11or 20 years, almost 20 years of experience, to be a 12normal reaction to be upset about the killing of 14A. Absolutely, nothing excessive just 16Q. And have you had situations where family 17members want you to go further with investigations? 19Q. It would be kind of common, wouldn't it? 20A. Every case is different but it has 21happened in my past, yes. 22Q. Okay. And did Delbert J Charles or any 23of the family members ever provide any information 24which helped in the investigation of whether or not Page 107
1you would proceed with murder charges or not? 2A. They gave me general background 3information on Abnerd Joseph as well as the ceil 4phone was turned over by the family. 5Q. So they were part -- would you agree 6that they are providing information was part of the 9Q. And I think you said Jay Charles just 10said he wanted justice for his brother, correct? 12Q. And was there anything unusual or 13anything you found disparaging about that comment? 14A. For me personally, no. 15Q. You heard the phone conversation and 16obviously the I guess I'll use the word incoherent 17or gibberish statements that Abnerd Joseph made on 18the phone that counsel played for you? 20Q. In your judgment as a detective with 21your training, did Abnerd Joseph need mental health 23MS. WENGER: Objection, form. 24MR. KING: Objection, calls for medical Page 108
3MR. WANGLER: Lack of foundation also. 6A. I could definitely tell his breath rate 7was high. He was excited. I would -- I would 8definitely suggest some type of intervention 11Q. If you had come across him at that point 12and he was in a bathrobe and had -- and he was 13talking like that, would you get mental health 14professionals involved as a typical and customary 15practice in your line of work as a detective? 16MR. WANGLER: Objection, calls for 17speculation, lack of foundation. 18MR. WEISS: Objection, calls for speculation. 19MR. KING: Lack of foundation. 24A. That is definitely one of the outcomes I Page 109
1could have as a police officer. 3Q. What is the procedure in terms of 4calling for a mental health professional, is there 5somebody within the police department that you call 6or is it if you had come upon the scene what would 8A. Wecould radio for the Chicago Fire 9Department who are trained as well as critical 10incident trainees in our districts, CIT trained 11individuals could respond. 12Q. That's what I was getting at. The CIT 13individuals. Are those police officers or are 14those through the fire department? 15A. They're police officers but occasionally 16they will have civilians attached to them as well. 17Q. And are those police officcrs that 18are -- receive extra training in handling 19individuals with mental health breakdowns? 21Q. And what does CIT stand for? 22A. Critical incident training. 23Q. And have you had CIT training? 24A. In general, yes, there is a 40-hour FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 110
1course which I do not have. 2Q. Okay. And that extra 40-hour course, 3those individual police officers -- are they police 6Q. And are they trained in something called 9Q. And you said you had some of that 10training but not the full 40 hours? 12Q. Is that what you're saying. How many 13hours have you had, Detective? 14A. Several. I couldn't tell you throughout 15the course of the years, several though. 16Q. And are you familiar with the manner in 17which the deescalation occurs? 19Q. Can you go through that with us? 20A. Weuse time as a tactic to try to slow 21everything down. We try to talk to the individual. 22Try not to be too offensive with our movements, and 23then request CIT if available. 24Q. In all of that training, that's training Page 111
1that has been honed for years by the Chicago Police 2Department, is that your understanding? 3A. Yes, it's a cyclical how often we get 5Q. And it's pretty extensive, would you 7A. I would like more but I wouldn't 8characterize it as extensive but we're trained. 9Q. And has it, in fact -- is it, in fact, 10true that the CIT training by the Chicago Police 11Department, if you know, is an example that's used 12in training other police departments throughout 14A. I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised 16Q. It's considered pretty top-notch 17treatment or training, isn't it? 19Q. And the police officers that are 20especially trained and yourself that has these -- 21has a special training to deescalate through CIT 22training, in your experience, does that more often 23than not work to deescalate the situation such as 24was presented with Abnerd Joseph? Page 112
2MR. KING: Objection. I don't know what the 5A. Yeah, every case is different. 7Q. Does the CIT training work? In other 8words, do you often -- have you taken part in 9deescalating situations where somebody had a mental 11A. In my training experience, absolutely. 12Q. And is it your understanding that's 13training that individuals to our laypersons don't 14typically have, correct? That's training that you 15folks in the police department and detectives have? 16A. I know certain professions train with 17it. I don't know exactly. 18Q. Well, software engineers -- do you know 19if software engineers receive CIT training? 21MR. WANGLER: Relevance. Page 113
2Q. Isn't that what Mr. Smith is? Well, 3let's put it this way, in your discussions with 4Mr. Smith and your investigation as to the murder 5charges, did you ever learn as to whether or not 6Mr. Smith ever had any CIT training? 8Q. In one of the answers you gave during 9the deposition by counsel, you said the word Joseph 10was the initial aggressor and you used “initial” 12Was there another aggressor that you 13found -- was anybody else an aggressor in that 15A. Garrett Smith fired shots from a 17Q. And so Garrett Smith would be considered 18an aggressor as well, correct? 20Q. In your training, did you see whether 21Mr. Smith engaged in any type of deescalation from 22your investigation reviewing your reports and so 23forth in your conversations with Mr. Smith, did you 24come to any opinion as to whether Mr. Smith FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 114
1attempted to use any type of deescalation? 2A. Mr. Smith warned of having a firearm 3permit and saying he had a gun. That could be to 4some people deescalation. 5Q. That could be to some people 8Q. Would that be correct that's now -- not 9how a CIT person is trained to deescalate? 10A. Only asa last resort. 11Q. Right. And before you get to that last 12resort, you don't usually brandish a gun to a 13person who is in a bathrobe who is having a mental 15A. Asapolice officer every case is 16different. If I feel the need to draw a gun, I 17would draw but specifically every case is 19Q. But in terms of the CIT training, you 20used the term time, and then is another part of CIT 21training to continue to talk to the individual? 22A. Yes, if we can absolutely. 23Q. And is it -- when so you take the time 24and you talk to the individual, do you also try to Page 115
1establish a rapport with the individual that is 2having this mental breakdown? 4Q. And part of establishing a rapport is to 5try to provide -- or try to find some commonality 6with the individual and continue to talk to him 9Q. And then the goal is to for him to 10deescalate and agree to if necessary go toa 11medical facility to receive proper mental health 12treatment, would that be correct? 13A. That would be the best case scenario. 14Q. And did you continue to have 15conversations with Delbert J. Charles or other 16family members all the way through May of 20 -- or 18A. At that point it was mostly attorneys 19but there would be phone calls that were 20conferenced in with the family occasionally. 21Q. And during that time period, would be it 22correct to say that you had conveyed that you were 23continuing to investigate Mr. Smith for charges of Page 116
1A. I would say, like I would give an update 2of the case and tell them if the Cook County 3State's Attorney wanted more interviews or more 4evidence. I'd basically update them where we were. 5Q. Okay. And from what they told you and 6the conversations that you had, was it your 7understanding that they knew that they were -- that 8Mr. Smith was being investigated for murder? 10Q. And they knew that -- was -- you 11conveyed that it was up to the Assistant State's 12Attorney which charges, if any, would be brought? 13A. Yes, J walked them through the steps, 15Q. The State's Attorney at the time was Kim 18Q. And she is an elected individual. She 19runs for office, correct? 21Q. And do you know if during the time that 22you were investigating this Ms. Foxx was running Page 117
1Q. Did any of the family members give you 2their opinion that Mr. Smith murdered their 4MS. WENGER: Objection, form. 6A. Gave their opinion that -- it was never 7a question if Garrett Smith shot Abnerd Joseph. 8That was never a question. 10Q. Okay. So did they ever give you an 11opinion, though, that a murder charge should be 13A. I told them that's the murder charge I 14was seeking. The highest charge possible. They 16Q. And it was your opinion, at least during 17the beginning stages of the investigation, that 18First Degree Murder was the appropriate charge to 21MR. DERATANY: I think that’s all I have. 24MR. DERATANY: Thank you, Detective. FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 118
3Q. Good afternoon, Detective Dowling. My 4name is Maura White and I represent Abnerd Joseph, 5the family in the wrongful death case. 7Q. So you testified earlier when you were 8being asked questions that you believe that the 9testimony of the witnesses on scene that night were 10consistent, is that correct? 12Q. Okay. You conducted numerous witness 13interviews the night that this happened, right, on 16Q. Prior to you conducting those 17interviews, you were aware that the responding 18officers also conducted interviews of some of those 21Q. Did you go through -- let me ask you 22this question. Those were captured on body worn Page 119
1Q. And did you have an opportunity to 2review their body wom camera prior to conducting 3the interviews on scene that night? 5Q. Did you have an opportunity to provide 6that body worn camera to the State's Attorney 7Office during the course of their investigation? 9Q. And when did you do that? 10A. I don't recall the date. 11Q. Would it have been prior to ASA 12Gallagher interviewing them on the 15th, the day 14A. I don't recall. It would have been some 15point during the investigation. 16Q. And when ASA Gallagher spoke to them on 17September 15th -- and by "them," I believe -- and 18you can correct me if I'm wrong -- I believe he 19spoke to Mr. Nena; is that correct? 21Q. He spoke to Mr. Clement? 23Q. And he also spoke to Natalie and Robert 24Bishopp, is that right? Page 120
2Q. When ASA Gallagher took their 3statements, did he memorialize their statements in 6Q. Did you mem -- other than your clear 7closed report that was Exhibit 1, did you take 8notes of their interviews? 9A. I would noted if there was anything 10different from the story which there wasn't so no. 11Q. Okay. And but you don't have any notes; 14Q. Okay. So and then would it -- are you 15aware that the witnesses in this case have all 16provided depositions during the course of the civil 18A. No,I wasn't aware of that. 19Q. Would it surprise you to know, for 20example, that Mr. and Mrs. Bishopp walked back 21their claim that they heard Abnerd Joseph using 22racially charged language when they were going 24MS. WENGER: Objection, mischaracterizes the Page 121
3MS. TRIBBIA: Objection as well. 4MR. WANGLER: Lack of foundation. 7A. That would be surprising, yes. 9Q. Are you aware that the night of the 10shooting Mr. Clement prepared typewritten notes 11regarding the shooting? 12A. I wasn't aware of that. 13Q. So is it fair to say he didn't provide 16Q. Would it surprise you to know that he 17initially believed that he passed out due to the 18sound of the gun shots? 19MR. NEGA: Objection, form. 21A. Mr. Clement originally thought he 24Q. And did he tell you why he thought he FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 122
3Q. You noted in your report that, for 4example, Bernard Schott -- and for the record 5that's S-c-h-o-t-t -- spoke to the State's 6Attorney's Office when he was subpoenaed in I 7believe it would have been August of 2024; is that 10Q. And I believe that you indicated on your 11-- in your detective's report that he included a 12new fact that he heard a punch striking a meaty 13substance before hearing shots fired; is that 16Q. And that on that day on August -- in 17August of 2024, that was the first time that you 18had heard him provide that information; is that 21Q. In addition to Mr. Schott's testimony, 22you also -- just so I'm clear, when Mr. Schott was 23giving his statement, I just wanted to clarify some 24questions that Mr. Deratany asked. Page 123
1Where in the State's Attorneys office 2were these witnesses interviewed? 3A. It wasn't a State's Attorney office. It 4was at 26th and California outside of the grand 6Q. Okay. Is that Branch 66, the homicide 8A. No. It was directly behind the check-in 9counter of the grand jury. 10Q. Okay. And just to be clear, they did 11not testify before the grand jury; is that correct? 13Q. And you did not testify before the grand 16Q. Okay. Now, in addition to the different 17interviews that you did, you had information that 18from Mr. Smith, for example, he initially provided 19a statement to your colleagues prior to you 20interviewing him at Area 3, is that right? 22Q. And he told your colleagues prior to you 23coming there that he thought at first Mr. Joseph 24had a weapon of some sort; is that correct? Page 124
2Q. Did you ever ask Mr. Smith about 5Q. You were aware that Abnerd Joseph was 6wearing a bathrobe at the time that he was killed, 9Q. And as far as you knew, at that time, no 10weapons were recovered on Abnerd Joseph's person, 13Q. And during the course of your 14investigation actually there were no weapons 15recovered regarding Abnerd Joseph, is that right? 17Q. And in Mr. Smith's statement, he told 18you that Abnerd Joseph kept charging at him and 19that he ultimately fell on Mr. Smith, is that 22Q. You testified that you thought that 23there was some sort of physical altercation between 24Mr. Smith and Abnerd Joseph? Page 125
2Q. And that's based solely on the testimony 3of Mr. Smith at this point, correct? 5MR. VAIDYA: Objection as to form. 7Q. During the course of your investigation 10Q. There was no testimony from Mr. Nena 11about the physical altercation; is that correct? 13MR. WANGLER: Objection, misstates the 19Q. Did Ms. Bishopp tell you -- she told you 20she did not see the shooting; is that correct? 21A. Yes, she went toward her door. 22Q. Mr. Clement told you that he lost 23conscious and regained it at some point before 24hearing gunshots; is that correct? FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 126
1A. I don't recall him hearing a gunshot but 2at some point he did lose consciousness, yes. 3@. And Mr. Bishopp did not relay watching 4what happened during the shooting, is that correct, 5because he was on the ground? 7Q. So when you are looking at the evidence 8with respect to the shooting itself, you're looking 9at this point the only person that's alive is 11A. And his injuries, yes. 12MS. WENGER: Objection, misstates evidence. 13MR. VAIDYA: I'm going to join in the 16Q. When Mr. Smith told you that Mr. Joseph 17fell on him after being shot, would you expect to 18that there would be a significant amount of blood 20MS. WENGER: Objection, calls for speculation. 22Q. -- in your training and experience? 24MR. WANGLER: Join, speculation. Page 127
2A. All wounds can be different. A sucking 3chest wound doesn't have much blood at all, so it 4all depends on the situation for that. 6Q. And at the time you interviewed 7Mr. Smith, had you already -- they had not 8conducted the autopsy at that point, correct? 10Q. So you didn't know what types of wounds 11Mr. Joseph would have had at the time you 12interviewed him; is that correct? 14Q. You knew from going to the hospital is 17Q. Okay. I just wanted to clarify that. 18Now with respect to the video evidence 19in this case, you reviewed the lobby surveillance 20camera; is that correct? 22Q. Andon the camera and I believe you 23testified -- but please correct me if I'm wrong -- 24Mr. Nena is at the front desk, correct? Page 128
2Q. And Mr. Clement Mr. and Mrs. Bishopp and 3Mr. Smith are at the front desk as well, is that 5MS. WENGER: I'm just going to object because 6this is unclear as to what point in time you are 7talking about in the video. 8MS. WHITE: And I'm happy to pull that up, if 9you want, but let me be clear. 11Q. So during the video that was captured 12prior to the shooting on the lobby video, 13Mr. Smith, Mr. Bishopp, Mrs. Bishopp and 14Mr. Clement are at the front desk of the lobby; is 16A. Atsome point in time they are all 17together at the front desk, yes. 18Q. And just to be clear, you can't hear 19what's being said on the video. There is no sound, 22Q. And the group walks towards the 23direction of the elevators, correct? Page 129
1Q. And at some point they come down all 2together; is that correct? 4Q. During the course of your investigation, 5did you ask the individuals who were at the front 6desk what they discussed prior to them going 9Q. Did you observe them when they came down 10from the elevators in the direction of the front 12MS. WENGER: Objection, form. 16Q. Did Mr. Nena on the video appear to be 18A. He wasn't limping or anything on the 20Q. Did his demeanor indicate to you based 21on your training and experience that he had just 22been in a physical altercation? 23MS. WENGER: Objection, calls for speculation. 24MR. WANGLER: Objection, speculation. FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 130
3A. He appeared to be moving pretty quickly 4when he hit the panic button. He was pacing back 5and forth. That's what I observed. 7Q. When Mr. Clement was walking towards the 8on the video after the coming down or coming 9towards the front desk, did he appear to have been 10involved in a physical altercation did you observe 12A. From the video at the front desk, no. 13MS. WENGER: Objection, calls for speculation. 17Q. What about Mr. Smith, did he appear to 18be injured in any way on the video when you 19observed HIM walking toward the front desk after 20coming from the direction of the elevators? 21MS. WENGER: Objection, calls for speculation. 24A. I didn't observe any injuries from that Page 131
3Q. And did it look to you like Mr. Smith 4had been in a physical altercation even if he 5didn't have any injuries at that time? 7MR. WANGLER: Objection, form. 9MR. WANGLER: Sorry, I cut you off. 10MS. WENGER: I'll join in your objection. 12A. At the point I viewed the video, I 13already knew of injuries. But from that video, no, 14there weren't any injuries that I could see. 16Q. Did Mr. Clement seek medical attention 17while you were on scene that night? 19Q. Did Mr. Nena seek medical attention on 20scene while you were there that night on 22MS. WENGER: I'm just going to object to form. Page 132
3Q. You testified that Mr. Nena -- 4Mr. Clement provided you some medical records that 7Q. --atsome point during the course of 9A. Yes, when he met with ASA Gallagher the 11Q. And at some point you requested Mr. Nena 12provide you medical records; is that correct? 14Q. Did he ever provide you any medical 17Q. Now, there was no -- did you go to the 1829th floor, Officer -- or excuse me, Detective? 20Q. Did other CPD personnel go to the 29th 23Q. Based on the investigation and what you 24learned during the course of the investigation, was Page 133
1there any evidence that Mr. Smith's door had been 2broken in any way or damaged? 4Q. You testified earlier that Mrs. Bishopp 5told you about needing to go to check to see 6whether or not or her door was locked or her door 7was unlocked and that's why they went upstairs; is 10Q. Did she ever tell you whether they 11determined if her door was locked or not? 13Q. You were asked questions regarding the 14toxicology report. And I believe you testified 15that it was May of 2024 when you provided that to 16the State's Attorney's Office; is that correct? 18Q. The date of the toxicology report is 19actually October 4, 2023. 20Do you know why there was a lag between 21the time that you -- the report was issued to the 22time that you would have received it? 24Q. With respect to the results of the FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 134
1toxicology report, did you -- you obviously 2reviewed it and I believe you testified that you 3spoke to the medical examiner after seeing it? 7Did you ever speak to the toxicologist? 9Q. Doyou have any training in toxicology 12Q. Are you trained to be able to interpret 13the results on a toxicology report? 15Q. So youcan't say sitting here today 16whether or not the levels that were -- or I should 17say the findings indicated impairment or not, is 19A. Only that the medical examiner stated 20that it wouldn't kill him but it could explain some 22Q. Now you testified, I believe, that you 23interviewed Mr. -- obviously you interviewed 24Mr. Smith when he was in custody. And I believe Page 135
1that you are interview lasted for a period of time 2where you asked him questions and he went through 3the entire -- his version of events that night. 4If, for example, Mr. -- there was 5evidence that Mr. Joseph dropped to the ground 6immediately after being shot, would that be in -- 7that would be inconsistent with the testimony that 8Mr. Smith provided that night, correct? 9MS. WENGER: Objection, form. 10MR. VAIDYA: Objection, join. 12A. Yes, not verbatim but in summation 13Mr. Garrett Smith said that he reached around and 14was touching near his wounds and backing up. 16Q. And if you learned additional 17information about forensic evidence, that could 18change whether or not Mr. Smith's version of events 19would be consistent with physical evidence, is that 21MS. WENGER: Objection, form. 22MR. VAIDYA: Objection, join. 24A. That's potential, yes. Page 136
2Q. So when you are conducting an 3investigation, Detective, you're obviously looking 4at the witness statements, correct? 6Q. There is also physical evidence to 9Q. And during the course of your 10investigation, as a detective for almost -- as an 11investigator for almost 20 years now, are there 12times where the physical evidence contradicts what 13a particular witness says about a circumstance or 14events leading up to a crime? 15A. I have been police officer for 19 years 16and not an investigator, but, yes, that could 18Q. Sois it important to physical test the 19evidence to make determinations about what is or is 20not present in a crime scene? 21A. Depending on the evidence, absolutely. 22Q. There were multiple pieces of evidence 23that you -- or the Chicago Police Department 24recovered during the course of the investigation; Page 137
3Q. There was a gun shot residue test or kit 4taken from Garrett Smith on the night of the 7Q. What's a gunshot residue test? 8A. A test of the molecules present in a 9firearm or in close proximity to the firearm being 11Q. And was that sent to the Illinois State 12Police crime lab for testing and analysis? 15A. Because Garrett admitted to shooting and 16all of the witnesses also stated the same. 17Q. Did -- was there a gunshot residue kit 18performed on Abnerd Joseph? 21A. Presumably he would have molecules on 23Q. There were multiple blood swabs that 24were inventoried; is that correct? FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 138
2Q. There were blood swabs taken from the 3red stain on the carpet, is that correct? 5Q. Were those sent to the Illinois State 6Police crime lab for testing and analysis? 9A. They were underneath the body of Abnerd 11Q. There were also swabs for biological 12evidence taken from the firearm that was recovered 13from Mr. Smith that night; is that correct? 14A. What was the question, swabs for what? 15Q. For biological material taken from 16Garrett Smith's gun that night, correct? 17A. Yes, during the evaluation at the crime 18lab, they often do that, yes. 19Q. Were those sent to the Illinois State 20Police crime lab for testing and analysis? 23A. There was no need. Garrett Smith 24admitted firing the firearm. Page 139
1Q. There were also Mr. Smith -- it was also 2Mr. Smith's shirt that was taken prior to your 3interview from his body and placed into evidence, 6Q. Was that sent to the Illinois State 7Police crime lab for testing and analysis? 9Q. Mr. Joseph's robe was also taken from 10his body following him being taken to the morgue 11and that was placed into evidence as well, correct? 13Q. Was that sent to the Illinois State 14Police crime lab for testing and analysis? 16Q. Now you testified briefly when you were 17being asked questions by counsel about Mr. Bent's 18statement to you and I believe you interviewed him 19the night on scene, is that right, Jareth Bent? 20A. Noton scene, no. I spoke to him in his 21apartment at 13th and Michigan. 22Q. So he told you, and I believe you 23testified, that he had been -- that he had noticed 24something about Mr. Joseph recently and I Page 140
1believe -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- his 2actual statement to you was that Nerd was, 3quote-unquote, off in the last two weeks? 4A. Yes. Was Nerd was his nickname for 6Q. But the question regarding suicide was 7not something that came up until that night from 8Mr. Bent; is that correct? 10Q. There were also blood -- there were also 11swabs of blood from the wall in the hall way that 12were taken; is that correct? 14Q. Those also were not sent to the Illinois 15police crime lab for testing and analysis, right? 17Q. You mentioned that you had an 18opportunity to review the 911 dispatch calls; is 21Q. And according to -- and just so that I'm 22clear, there are timestamps that are provided along 23with those calls, correct? 24A. Yes, it is an automated time stamping Page 141
2Q. And at approximately 7:21 p.m., 3according to that, Mr. Nena first contacts 911; is 6Q. And it was approximately 7:34 p.m. when 7Meredith Riccio contacts 911 regarding shots being 9A. I have no reason to dispute that. 10Q. And so is it fair to say that between 11approximately 10 to maybe 11 to 13 minutes from the 12time Mr. Nena first called 911 -- excuse me, it was 13approximately 10 to £3 minutes from the time 14Mr. Nena initially called 911 at 7:21 to report the 15screaming to the time that the shots were fired and 16that call came in at 7:34? 17MR. WANGLER: Counsel, show him the inquiries. 18You can't expect him to know that off the top of 20MS. WHITE: Give me a second and I can pull 21that up. I'll pull that up and then I'll come back 22in and get that for you. 24Q. But you had testified earlier that you FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 142
1thought that it was about a half an hour; is that 3MR. VAIDYA: Objection, misstates prior 8A. This whole incident was less than half 12Q. How many homicides would you say you 13have investigated during the course of your career, 15A. Any part of somewhere between 50 and 17Q. Okay. If I could just have a minute 18I'll pull that up to show you. 19So Detective Dowling, you mentioned 20earlier that you were aware of some potential 21inconsistencies between the prior statements of 22Mr. Nena, Mr. Clement, the Bishopps, Mr. Smith and 23the any civil depositions that were taken in this Page 143
1MR. VAIDYA: Objection, form. 5MS. WENGER: Also misstates testimony. 8A. I didn't even know they provided 9testimony, so I have no knowledge of anything. 11Q. And obviously the State's Attorney's 12Office is not aware of that either, correct? 13MR. WANGLER: Objection, lack of foundation. 17Q. To your knowledge, is the State's 18Attorney's Office aware of that? 19A. Thaven't talked to the State's 20Attorney's Office about this case since it was 22MR. VAIDYA: Objection, form. Page 144
2Q. When you observed Mr. Smith walking from 3the elevator back to the lobby after the shooting 4occurred, did you observe any of his clothing to be 6MS. WENGER: Objection, form. 11Q. Do you recall him appearing disheveled 13A. I recall him placing his back against 14the lobby wall and sliding down to his butt. 15MS. WHITE: If I can have just a second. 17MS. WENGER: Do you want someone else? 18MS. WHITE: Yeah, someone else and then I 19might just have couple more. 20MS. WENGER: Who is next up? 21MS. WHITE: Oh, you know what, I have a couple 22of -- I'm sorry. I'll just make sure and then I'll Page 145
2Q. So during the course of your interviews, 3Mr. Nena, for example, was aware that Garrett Smith 4had a weapon on him, is that fair to say? 6MS. WENGER: Objection as to form. 7MR. VAIDYA: Objection as to form. 9Q. And he took Mr. Smith along with 10Mr. Bishopp and Mr. Clement, Mrs. Bishopp and -- up 11to the 48th floor; is that correct? 12MR. VAIDYA: Objection as to the form. 16A. He never said he took them. They went 19Q. They all went togcther, is that fair to 22Q. And knowing that Mr. Smith was armed 23with a gun: is that correct? 24MR. WANGLER: Object to foundation. FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 146
7Q. At the time that they were in the lobby 8prior to going upstairs, based on your review of 9the body -- of the video, as well as your 10investigation in this case, were they facing any 11type -- they were in a place of safety, is that 14MR. WANGLER: Objection as to form. 16MS. WENGER: Calls for speculation. 19A. There was no threat in that lobby at 22Q. And based on the information at that 23time, there was -- Mr. Joseph was up on the 48t 24floor, is that what you learned during the course Page 147
2MR. VAIDYA: Objection as to form. 7Q. And they -- the group, went upstairs to 8where Mr. Joseph was; is that correct? 9A. They went to the 48th floor, yes, where 10Abnerd Joseph was located. 11Q. And based on your training and 12experience, are you allowed to go from a place of 13safety to a place of potential danger and then 16MS. WENGER: Objection, form, calls for a 17legal conclusion, calls for speculation. 19MR. KING: I join as well. 21A. My investigation revealed there is 22nothing criminal with moving around your building. 24Q. Are you allowed to go confront somebody Page 148
4MR. WANGLER: Objection, join. 7A. I mean you're free to confront anybody 8you want to from a criminal standpoint. 10Q. Well, I guess my question, just to be 11clear, Detective, is if you are claiming self 12defense, for example, like Mr. Smith is, are you 13allowed to go from a place of safety to a place of 14danger and then claim self defense? 16MR. WANGLER: Objection, asked and answered 17form, calls for speculation. Go ahead. 18MR. VAIDYA: Calls for a legal conclusion. 19MS. WENGER: And incomplete hypothetical as 22MR. NEGA: Join as well. Page 149
2A. There are some situations where an 3individuals could put them self in a position where 4they do claim self defense and it wouldn't be 7Q. And one of those times was if, for 8example, they created a dangcrous situation, is 11Q. That they didn't deescalate when that 15MS. TRIBBIA: Objection, misstates the 19A. Deescalation can be a criteria at some 20point but sometimes there is a time for 23Q. But in this case, Mr. Smith, 24Mr. Clement, Mr. Nena, and the Bishopps were all FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 150
1downstairs and then they went upstairs to the 4. And based on your investigation, when 5they observed Mr. Joseph on the 48th floor, they 6didn't retreat, correct? 8MS. TRIBBIA: Objection, misstates the 9testimony. He's already testified that 10Mrs. Bishopp was not there. 12MS. WENGER: Mischaracterizes testimony. 15A. Atdifferent points after the shooting, 16Andy Clement crawled away and Garrett Smith back 19Q. But I guess my question to you is, when 20they arrived upstairs, you -- Mr. Smith's testimony 21and some of the other witnesses -- and for the 22record I'm not referring to Mrs. Bishopp because I 23believe her testimony is that she was in the other 24direction -- but after Mr. Nena was allegedly Page 151
1struck by Abnerd Joseph, they could have retreated, 3MS. WENGER: Objection, calls for speculation. 5MR. VAIDYA: Objection, misstates the 9A. Mr. Nena satd he was struck two or three 10times in the face which caused him to fall back in 11the wall and strike his elbow and he begin to fall 14Q. You originally learned during the course 15of your investigation that the Bishopps were 16worried about their door being unlocked, correct? 18Q. Mr. Bishopp never told you that he went 19to go check whether or not the door was locked, 22Q. Mr. Clement never told you that he went 23to check whether or not Mrs. and Mrs. Clement's 24door was locked, right? Page 152
1MS. WENGER: Mr. and Mrs. Bishopp. 2MS. WHITE: I'm sorry, Mr. and Mrs. Bishopp. 7Q. Garrett never went to check with the 8Bishopps to see whether or not their door was 11Q. And Mr. Nena never went with the 12Bishopps to see if there door was locked, correct? 13MR. VAIDYA: Objection, form. 16MR. VAIDYA: Misstates -- 20Q. During -- and based on injure 21investigation, you went up to the 48th floor, ts 24Q. And Mr. and Mrs. Bishopps' condo is -- Page 153
1and correct me if I'm wrong -- and I believe it's 2to the left when you walk out the elevator; is that 4MS. WENGER: Objection, form. It depends on 5which clevator you are in. 7Q. Well, let me ask it this way. 8Mr. Joseph was not in front of the 9Brshopps' door when they arrived to -- you heard 10nothing during the course of all of your interviews 11that he was near the Bishopps' door when they got 12to the 48th floor; is that correct? 13A. When Mrs. Bishopp exited the elevator 14bank, she went eastbound towards her unit. Abnerd 15Joseph was westbound by Shirley Meng's door. 16Q. And based on the information you learned 17during the course of your investigation, 18Mr. Bishopp went in the direction of Mr. Joseph; is 21Q. Mr. Nena went in the direction of 24Q. Mr. Clement went in the direction of FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 154
3Q. And Mr. Smith also went in the direction 6Q. Noone relayed to you that they 7contacted 911 again while they were on the 48th 10Q. There is an elevator on the 48th floor 13Q. And there is also stairs between the 14floors there; is that correct? 16Q. So is it fair to say that they -- they 17could have gone back down the elevator that they 19MS. WENGER: Objection, calls for speculation. 20MR. WANGLER: Objection. 23A. Depending on what point of the Page 155
2Q. And depending where they were, they also 3could have used the stairways to go in between the 4floors to get away from Mr. Joseph, is that 6MS. WENGER: Objection, calls for speculation. 8A. I know there is a stairwell on the west 9side. I don't know if there is a stairwell on the 12Q. When you reviewed -- did you review the 13body worn camera of Mr. Nena’s initial interview on 16Q. And in that interview, he told the 17responding officers that he got the four guys, 18including the guy with the gun, to go to the 48th 19floor; is that correct? 20A. I don't recall the verbiage. 21Q. When he first spoke to the police, he 22was aware that Mr. Smith had a gun, correct? 24Q. He was the employee of the building at Page 156
3Q. He was the front desk personnel, 5A. They referred to it as doorman, but yes. 6Q. And Mr. Smith, Mr. Clement and the 7Bishopps were residents; is that correct? 9Q. Did the State's Attorneys office know 10that Mr. Nena knew that Mr. Clement -- that 11Mr. Smith had a gun prior to going upstairs with 12the rest of the individuals to the 48th floor? 13A. It was presented to them, so, yes, they 15Q. Are armed -- is it legal to act as armed 16vigilantes to take matters into your own hands? 18MS. WENGER: Objection, calls for a legal Page 157
2A. What do you mean by vigilante? 4Q. Cana group act as a posse to go 5confront someone when somebody else is armed? 6MR. VAIDYA: Objection to form. 12A. I think it's dependent, and, 13hypothetically speaking, it's very broad. 15Q. Cana group go from a place of safety 16with a gun to confront somebody when the police 19MR. WANGLER: Asked and answered. 21MS. WENGER: Incomplete hypothetical, calls 24A. I mean, if there is a situation my first FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 158
1thought is a school shooting. If there is somebody 2shooting a school, I would want somebody to 3intercede in a school shooting, so that would be a 4case where somebody is armed in an encounter. So 7Q. This isn't a school shooting. This 8wasn't a school shooting, correct? 10Q. The information that -- based on your 11investigation, the information at the time was that 12Mr. Joseph was pounding on doors, correct? 14Q. And that he was yelling? 16Q. There was no information based on your 17investigation that he was -- no one called in 18saying there was somebody who was armed in the 21Q. There was no call that anybody had been 24MS. WENGER: Objection, misstates testimony. Page 159
3Q. Prior to them going upstairs to the 48th 6Q. There was no -- there was no information 7that there was a criminal -- even a criminal damage 8to property on site prior to them going up to the 948th floor; is that correct? 11MR. VAIDYA: Objection, form. 15Q. So the only information, based on your 16investigation that was available prior to them 17going up to the 48th floor, was the -- so Mr. Nena 18had called 911, correct? 20Q. Mr. Smith had called 911? 22Q. And it was -- and 911 did not come 23immediately, is that fair? 24MR. WANGLER: Objection, form. Page 160
3A. Do you mean the police response? 6Q. I'm sorry, the police did not. There 7was not a police response at that point, correct? 9Q. At the time they went up to the 48th 11A. Oh, that is correct. 12Q. But the police had been called, correct? 14Q. More than one individual called 911, 16A. Several callers, yes. 17Q. And they could have waited downstairs 18for the police to arrive; is that correct? 20MS. WENGER: Objection, calls for speculation. 23Q. Mr. Nena chose not to wait for the Page 161
2Q. Mr. Smith chose not to wait for the 5. Mrs. Bishopp chose not to wait for the 7MS. TRIBBIA: Objection, mischaracterizes 8Mrs. Bishopp’s knowledge and actions. 9MR. VAIDYA: I'm going to object to the form 10of all of those questions. 15Q. Mr. Bishopp did not wait for the police 16prior to going up to the 48th floor, is that right? 17MR. VAIDYA: Renew objection. 18MS. TRIBBIA: Objection. 24Q. Mr. Smith did not wait for the police to FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 162
1arrive before going to the 48th floor, correct? 2MR. VAIDYA: Renew my objection. 7Q. When they were in the lobby prior to 8going up to the 48th floor, Mr. Nena was not in 9harms way, is that right? 10MR. VAIDYA: Objection, form. 12MR. DERATANY: What's the objection? Do yo 14MS. WENGER: He said fonn. 16Q. Let me ask it a different way. 17Mr. Nena was not facing any type of 18physical threat at the time; is that correct? 19MR. VAIDYA: Objection, form. 21A. Not that he made me aware of, no. 23Q. You watched -- you observed the video, Page 163
2Q. Based on what you could see in the 3video, was there any threat to Mr. Nena at the time 4prior to them going up to the 48th floor? 6Q. Was there a threat to Mr. Smith prior to 7him going up to the 48th floor? 8MS. WENGER: Objection, form. 13Q. Was there a threat to Mrs. Bishopp prior 14to her going up to the 48th floor from the lobby? 16Q. Did Mr. Bishopp face any threat in the 17lobby before he went up to the 48th floor? 19Q. Did Mr, Clement face any threat while he 20was in the lobby before he went up to the 48th 22MR. VAIDYA: Objection as to the form of all 23of these questions. I renew my prior objection. Page 164
3MS. WHITE: That's all I have. 4MR. KING: Can we take five minutes? 5THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This marks the end of media 6No. 2. The time is 2:03 p.m. We are off the 8(WHEREUPON, a break was taken.) 9THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This marks the beginning of 10media No. 3. The time is 2:12 p.m. We are on the 14Q. All right. Detective Dowling, my name 15is Chris Tribbia. I represent Mr. and Mrs. Bishop 16in this case. I'm going to jump around a little 17bit because I think during the past three and a 18half hours we've covered quite a bit, so I'm just 19going to try and pick up on a couple things here 21The first thing I was going to go back 22to was when you were at the scene at any point did 23you ever go into Mr. Joseph's apartment into his Page 165
2Q. Okay. Did anybody, to your knowledge, 3any of your detectives or responding officers did 4anybody ever go in there? 5A. My Sergeant Kolman, K-o-l-m-a-n, Star 6No. 2000 and our Lieutenant Lamparis went in there 7and did a visual sweep to make sure that nobody was 9Q. To your knowledge, did they do any sort 10of inspection or cataloging of medication or drugs 11or alcohol that were visible? 12A. No. It was just a visual sweep to see 13if anybody needed medical aid. 14Q. Understood. Is another part of your 15investigation in this type of situation to 16determine whether the person -- what was testimony 17that the person was behaving a certain way whether 18there is any evidence of drugs, alcohol or any type 19of drugs or alcohol in the person's unit? 20A. It can be in some investigations, yes. 21Q. And that was not something that was 22investigated here, right? 24Q. Okay. When Mr. Charles, Mr. Joseph's FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 166
1brother, advised that he had -- I think you said he 2advised that he had an Adderall prescription; is 5Q. Do you have any idea whatever happened 6to that Adderall prescription itself? 8Q. Okay. So you have no knowledge and it 9was not part of the investigation as to how many 10pills of Adderall Mr. Joseph may have consumed at 13Q. And Mr. Charles never offered that 14information to you. He never gave you the pills as 15evidence or anything like that, did he? 17Q. Do you know if Mr. Charles took those 19MS. WHITE: Objection, calls for speculation. 20MR. DERATANY: Objection, requires Page 167
2A. I don't even know if the pills exist. 3MS. TRIBBIA: Okay. Thank you. 5Q. In terms of you were asked a series of 6questions by counsel at the end just now which drew 7a bunch of objections but what I would like to ask 8you about is did you -- there were a lot of 9questions about everybody going up to the 48th 11Is it not possible that Mr. Joseph could 12have left the 48th floor by the time people went 15Q. At the time at that Mr. and Mrs. Bishopp 16first encountered Mr. Joseph, that was just, as I 17understand it, it was just off the elevator, 19A. They were boarding the elevator as 20Abnerd Joseph was exiting. 21Q. So they did not witness any -- to your 22knowledge, they did not witness anything that 23happened on the 29th floor, correct? Page 168
1Q. And they didn't witness whatever was 2happening on the 48th floor after they boarded the 5Q. At any point did Mrs. Bishopp ever make 6astatement to you that she thought that going back 7up to the 48th floor was a dangerous place to go? 9Q. At any point did Mr. Bishopp ever state 10to you that going to the 48th floor was a dangerous 13Q. And they, in fact, owned a unit on the 16Q. And I believe you mentioned this but I 17just want to make clear, there is nothing illegal 18or criminal about Mr. and Mrs. Bishopp returning to 19the floor in which they lived, the 48th floor, 22Q. Do you have any idea how long that 23entire interaction with Mr. Joseph, how long that Page 169
2Q. Okay. So when counsel was asking you 3about all of the different things that could 4possibly -- people can possibly can use, that's all 5just speculative, correct? You have no idea how 6long anybody could have done anything in that 8A. Correct, every case is different. 9MR. DERATANY: Objection. 11Q. And you would agree that at least as to 12Mr. Bishop, you would agree that he had told you 13that he had fallen to the floor, correct? 15Q. Okay. Would you understand that to be 16the behavior of somebody who was scared of what was 18A. That was a result of Mr. Nena and 19Mr. Clement falling backwards. 20Q. Okay. And that was after Mr. Joseph had 21assaulted them, correct? 23Q. You don't know -- aside from what you 24have in your notes and what you have written in FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 170
1your report, you don't have any knowledge as to 2what Mr. and Mrs. Bishop were thinking when they 3went up to the 48th floor, correct? 5MR. DERATANY: What they were thinking? 6Objection, requires speculation as to what they 8MS. TRIBBIA: Okay. Those are all of the 9questions I have. Thank you. 12Q. Good afternoon, Detective. Michael 13Weiss. I represent Sudler, Deborah Romero and 15Based on your prior testimony and my 16review of the reports that were provided so far, 17it's my understanding you during your investigation 18you only spoke with Ms. Romero one occasion; is 20A. She actually called our detective 21division, I believe, the next day after the 23Q. Okay. Do you recall what she called -- 24the reason for her calling? Page 171
1A. There was a disturbance in their lobby 2there at 60 East Monroe, so I advised her to call 4Q. The Abnerd Joseph disturbance or this 7Q. Okay. So separate events? 9Q. Okay. Thank you. Did you ever 10investigate Ms. Romero for involuntary 13Q. Did you ever investigate her for 16Q. Didyou investigate her for negligent 19Q. During the course of -- excuse me. 21During the course of your investigation, 22did you ever speak with Dominic Tedaldi? 23A. He was around me in conversations. 24Directly spoken to him, I don't believe so. I ma Page 172
1have said some maybe situational questions like 2where could we interview a witness, things like 3that, nothing substantive of this -- this incident. 4Q. Same with Ms. Romero. Would it be safe 5to assume that you never investigated Mr. Tedaldi 6for involuntary manslaughter? 8Q. You never investigated Mr. Tedaldi for 11Q. You never investigated Mr. Tedaldi for 14Q. It's my understanding -- and please 15correct me if I'm wrong -- in Illinois a 16corporation can be held liable under a theory of -- 17or for involuntary manslaughter or reckless 18homicide if their acts or omissions contributed to 19death of an individual; is that correct? 20A. In specific cases like a trucking 21company, stuff like that, but nothing that pertains 22to my case was -- was a corporation involved. 23Q. Okay. So just to clear it up, Sudler 24was never under investigation for involuntary Page 173
1manslaughter or reckless homicide of Mr. J oseph? 3MR. WEISS: That's all I have. Thank you. 6. Hi, Detective. My name is Michael Nega. 7Lrepresent Andy Clement in this case. Thank you 9Can you hear me? Sometimes my 10headphones aren't catching my voice. 12Q. Did Mr. Clement ever tell you he felt 13going up to the 48th floor was dangerous prior to 14him actually going to the 48th floor? 16Q. And from your experience and everything 17you know, there is nothing criminal about Andrew 18Clement, as a resident of the building, going up to 19the 48th floor prior to the shooting, correct? 21Q. And have you -- and you saw no evidence 22that warranted charging Andrew Clement with any FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 174
1Q. Detective, do you remember your 2testimony regarding witnesses telling you Andrew 3Clement was punched by Abnerd Joseph prior to the 6Q. Who reported to you that Andrew Clement 7was struck by Mr. Joseph? 8A. Mr. Smith, Mr. Nena and Mr. Bishopp. 9Q. Did anyone report to you that Andy 10Clement was the aggressor in this situation? 12Q. Detective, do you remember your 13testimony regarding Bernard Schott and him stating 14something of the sort that he heard skin hitting 15muscle just prior to gunshots? 16A. I don't remember skin hitting muscle but 17something to the effect of a punch hitting skin or 19Q. I may have misstated it. My apologies, 21Did you ever record this in any written 24Q. Okay. I don't know if this was shared Page 175
1as an exhibit but it's your case supplemental 2report from July 23, 2023. If it was, I'll mark it 3as that exhibit. If it's not, I can mark it as a 5MS. WENGER: I think that’s a new one. 6MS. WHITE: July 2025 he is showing. 8MS. WHITE: That's Exhibit 1. 9MR. NEGA: Okay. So this has been already 10been marked as Exhibit |. 12Q. Detective, is this your case 15Q. Okay. I'm going to scroll down to 16page 22 of 24, Detective. Can you see my screen? 18Q. What I have highlighted? 19A. Your right edge is cut off a little bit. 20Q. The last paragraph of page 22 of 24? 22+ Q. And is this an interview that you 23attended with the ASA in August of 2024 with 24Bernard Schott and I forgot the first name of the Page 176
2A. It would be Meredith Riccio or Riccio, 4Q. And this is an interview you attended 7Q. Okay. And here you indicate it's the 8one, two, three, four, five -- the fifth line down, 9Schott recalled hearing what he describes as, 10quote, a punch striking a meaty surface before he 11heard shots being fired, period. 13Q. Do you remember hearing Schott saying 16Q. And is that why you wrote this down in 19Q. Okay. I'm going to stop sharing my 21What did you take this to mean? 22A. I took that to mean the punch that 24Q. Okay. So in your opinion, did this Page 177
1corroborate the statements you received from 2witnesses including -- or indicating Abnerd Joseph 3punched Andy Clement prior to the shooting? 5MR. DERATANY: I'll note an objection, 7MR. NEGA: You can answer, Detective. 10MR. NEGA: That's all I have for you. Thank 16Q. Detective, I'm Mike King and I represent 18So when you first arrived on the scene, 19was it your understanding that Garrett Smith was 21A. I had a brief interaction with Garrett 22Smith at the transport vehicle. I wouldn't 23characterize him at that but it was very brief. I 24didn't do a big evaluation of him. FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 178
1Q. But you saw the videotape of him 2collapsing on the floor in the lobby? 4Q. During the time that you were making 5your initial investigation, did Mr. Smith cooperate 6with you and other police officers about what had 9Q. Is it your understanding that Mr. Smith 10actually called 911 initially and then called 911 a 11second time after the shooting? 13MR. DERATANY: Objection, foundation. 14MR. KING: You can answer the question. 18Q. Okay. With respect to calls to 911, is 19there a priority in responding to those calls or 21A. Yes. When the Office of Emergency 22Management gets a call, it's prioritized 1 through 24Q. And what are those categories? Page 179
1A. It's a ranking system for police 2response. So | might be a domestic, person with a 3gun. 4 might be a traffic accident or a downed 5Q. So if the initial call that came into 6911 suggested there was a disturbance in the 7hallway, where would that rank in terms of a police 9A. A disturbance in a hallway would be -- 10MR. DERATANY: Objection, incomplete 13A. It could be a 3 or a 4. 15Q. All right. And what would be the 16response to -- what would be the ranking with shots 17fired or somebody shot? 18A. That would be a Priority 1 call. 19Q. Okay. So with respect to the response 20toa priority 3 call, what would, if you know, what 21would be a typical police response? 22MS. WHITE: Objection, form of the question, Page 180
2A. Generally speaking, they would respond 3to the scene and perform a preliminary 6Q. Would that be an emergency sirens 7blaring, Mars lights flashing and racing down the 9MS. WHITE: Objection, calls for speculation. 14Q. So you mentioned -- just to jump around 15a little bit. You mentioned that your lieutenant 16and another officer went into the apartment of 17Mr. Joseph to see if anybody was there and needed 18medical treatment or was injured. Do you recall 21Q. All right. And would the same concems 22be appropriate for Mr. Nena who was the building 23employee and was working the front desk to find out 24whether there were any residents were injured and Page 181
1needed medical assistance on the 48th floor or the 229th floor or anyplace else? 3MS. WHITE: Objection, form. 4MR. DERATANY: Objection, form, foundation, 5requires speculation on his part. 7MR. KING: You can answer that question. 9A. I don't know what his job entails. 11Q. So when police -- when the first police 12officers arrived at the scene of the incident, 13what's the first thing that they do when they're 15A. They secure the scene. 16Q. And do they also ask what's going on a 19Q. So if you know, did the first responding 20officers who arrived at the 60 East Monroe 21building, inquire what was going on and where it 22was located within the building? 23MR. DERATANY: Objection, foundation, requires FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 182
2A. Is there a specific officer? 4Q. No. I'm just asking when the first 5officers walked in, did they inquire and would they 6have inquired of Mr. Nena and others what was going 7onand, you know, where the disturbance was located 8so they would know how to respond and where? 9A. That would be a question first 10responding officers would ask, sure. 11Q. And is it your understanding that the 12only way Mr. Nena could have answered those 13questions was by going up to find out what the 14situation was whether somebody needed help, a 15medical emergency or whatever? 16MS. WHITE: Objection, calls for speculation, 20A. Each situation is different and what 21each individual does is different. 23Q. Now you were responsible for this 24investigation; is that correct, sir? Page 183
2Q. And in a situation where somebody has 3been killed, is it important to you that the 4investigation be thorough and complete? 6Q. As part of that, did you interview every 7known witness to the shooting? 9Q. Okay. And as part of your investigation 10you or other police officers interviewed everybody 11who you knew or reasonably knew anything about th 12circumstances of what had occurred? 13A. No, that's not true. 14Q. Who was not interviewed that you think 15might have had information that would have been 16relevant to your investigation? 17A. I don't believe it was relative to the 18investigation but Kacey was not interviewed by 20Q. But he didn't have any, as far as you 21know, didn't have any direct knowledge. He wasn't 22in the building. He wasn't on the premises. He 23wasn't there for the shooting? Page 184
1Q. And is there anybody else other than 2case see who was not interviewed that you thought 3might have any relevant information? 4A. No,I would have interviewed them. 5Q. So during the investigation, did you 6have an understanding of what the physical distance 7was between Mr. Nena and Mr. Clement, Mr. Smith and 8Mr. Bishopp at the time they got off the elevator 9and moved to the corridor where Mr. Joseph was? 10A. I had a general understanding. It 11wasn't an exact science, but, yes, I had a general 13Q. And were they, in your opinion and to 14the best of your knowledge, bunched together within 15a very short distance of each other? 17MR. DERATANY: Objection, form, foundation 21A. They were more in a line as they 22approached the west side of the hallway. 24Q. Do you have any sense of how much Page 185
1distance there was between each of them in the 4Q. What's your best estimate of the 5distance between the first person in the line and 6the last person in the line? 7A. Close enough when Mr. Nena fell 8backwards, he fell towards Mr. Clement. 9Q. So is it your understanding that the 10first person who Mr. Joseph assaulted was Mr. Nena? 12MR. DERATANY: Objection, form, foundation. 16Q. And the second was Mr. Clement, is that 18MR. DERATANY: Objection as to form, assault. 23Q. And what time difference do you think 24there was between the time that Mr. Nena was hit FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 186
1and the time that Mr. Clement was hit? 2A. The witnesses related it was very fast. 3Q. Is that ten minutes, is that ten 4seconds, what's your best understanding? 6Q. And what was the distance, if you know, 7between Mr. Clement and Mr. Smith when Mr. Smith 9MR. DERATANY: Objection, form. 12A. They were in the same hallway but as to 13exact distance I wouldn't know. 15Q. All right. And do you have a sense of 16how much time elapsed between the time that 17Mr. Clement was hit and the time that Mr. Smith 20MS. WHITE: Objection as to form of the Page 187
2. Now with respect to the time that 3Mr. Smith fired, what's your understanding of the 4distance between Mr. Joseph and Mr. Smith when 6MS. WHITE: Objection as to the form of the 10A. The distance would have been constantly 11changing because Abnerd Joseph was advancing 12forward toward Garrett Smith facing him and Garrett 13Smith was back pedalling towards the Riccio and the 15Q. So is it -- strike that. 16Wouid it be fair to say that the 17distance was no more than two or three or 19MS. WHITE: Objection, form. 20MR. DERATANY: Objection, requires 24A. I can tell you it varied and it varied Page 188
1to Abnerd Joseph falling on top of Garrett Smith. 3Q. So you said that there was blood on the 4wall. Do you recall that testimony? 6Q. All right. And Mr. Smith -- Joseph was 7the only who was injured and pleading of the group 8that was there is that right? 9MS. WHITE: Objection, misstates his 12A. Garrett Smith received a Band-Aid to his 13finger from the Chicago Fire Department and had an 14abrasion to the top of his head, his knees and his 17Q. Is it your understanding that the blood 18on the wall came from Mr. Joseph falling or from 19the shots being hitting Mr. Joseph? 20MS. WHITE: Objection, form, calls for 21speculation, foundation. 24A. I wouldn't know when it came. Page 189
2Q. From your investigation, do you havea 3sense, an opinion, based on your investigation of 4the distance between Mr. Smith and Mr. Joseph at 5the time Mr. Joseph was shot? 6MR. DERATANY: A sense? Objection, form. 7MS. WHITE: Foundation, join. 9A. I can tell you they're located in the 10same hallway. As to distance, I can't be exact 13Q. Now, you were asked some questions about 14Mr. Joseph having some mental health issues and 16Is it your understanding that the CIT 17teams do not work on a 24-hour shift? 18A. So I wouldn't say there was mental 19health issues. I would say he was in crisis. I'm 20not able to diagnose anything. But CIT officers 21are trained individually and then there is a CIT 22unit who has select hours but CIT officers can be 23anywhere throughout the city. 24Q. - Right. So with respect to the unit, was FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 190
1it your understanding that that unit was actually 2not on duty at the time? 3MR. DERATANY: Objection, go ahead. 7Q. With respect to deescalation, you may 8recall you were asked a group of questions about 9deescalation and about things that might have 10explained either the intensity of Mr. Joseph 11behavior or the path of Mr. Joseph's behavior. 12Mr. Smith would have been confronted 13with the behavior, not the reasons for the behavior 14at the time that he was confronted, is that a fair 16MR. DERATANY: Objection, form, requires 17speculation, foundation. 19MR. KING: You can answer. 23Q. Now, are you aware that Mr. Brian -- Page 191
1Do you remember meeting with Delbert and 2Brian, two of Mr. Joseph's brothers, either the day 3after the shooting or two days after the shooting? 5Q. All right. Brian has testified that you 6said to him and Delbert that you apologized that 7the police had some responsibility for what had 8happened because they had not responded to the 9initial calls. Do you recall making such a 11MR. DERATANY: Objection, mischaracterizes 15A. I did not make that statement. 17Q. Have you ever made such a statement in 19A. No. In this investigation for that 22A. No, I did not make that statement. 23Q. When you first took Mr. Smith into 24custody, is it the norma! part of an investigation Page 192
1until you knew exactly what happened and what was 2going on that you would have secured somebody who 3might have been responsible? 4MS. WHITE: Objection as to form of the 5question, foundation, calls for speculation. 8A. Responsible for what? 10Q. That in a situation where you arrived on 11the scene and there had been a shooting -- or there 12had been an injury, you would have secured the 13appearance of somebody who might have been 14responsible for the shooting or the injury, as to 16MS. WHITE: Same objection. 19A. Asa detective I respond after the fact, 20so I'm not a first responder. I respond after the 23Q. So the first responders would have been 24responsible for basically securing -- somebody who Page 193
1might have been responsible until a determination 2had been made that there either was or not a 4MR. DERATANY: Form, objection. If you 5understand the question. 7A. Youcould potentially detain somebody on 8scene while you investigate, yes. 10Q. Okay. At any time did you tell any of 11Mr. Joseph's family not to provide you all of the 13MS. WHITE: Objection as to the form of the 18Q. In fact, you invited them to provide you 19with any information they had that might have been 20relevant, is that a fair statement? 21A. I provided them with my business card 22that had all of my information on there, yes. 23Q. And from time to time, did you talk to 24them about information they had or progress reports FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 194
1or up to date information? 2A. Their information, they were out of 3state, so they didn’t have any information from the 4scene but they had background about Abnerd Joseph. 5Q. Did Delbert ever tell you that a white 6woman in her 30s had come into Mr. Joseph's 7apartment while they were cleaning it out and told 8Delbert that this was a racial shooting and never 9would have happened had she been there and it was 10always a mistake to confront somebody having a 11crisis of some sort. Did he ever tell you anything 14Q. Was Delbert the conduit on behalf of the 15family in terms of getting information from you or 16checking with you from time to time on the status 17and then he would be responsible of distributing 18that information to other members of the family? 19MR. DERATANY: Objection, form, foundation. 22A. Jay Charles was my initial point of 23contact. I believe I spoke to Brian once alone on 24the phone and then Jason Freidl from Romanucci & Page 195
3Q. During the course of your investigation, 4did you find any evidence whatever that Mr. Smith 5set out to punish Mr. Joseph for spitting on his 7MR. DERATANY: Objection, requires 8speculation, improper 213 (f)(3) opinion, form, 12A. I was not aware of any of that. 14Q. Did you during the course of your 15investigation find any information that suggested 16that Mr. Smith and the Bishopps and Mr. Clement and 17Mr, Nena were vigilantes going after Mr. Joseph? 18MR. DERATANY: Objection, form, foundation, 21A. I'm not super -- I know what a vigilante 22is but I'm not -- anything to this case I've never Page 196
2Q. Did you find any information during the 3course of your investigation that the Bishopps, 4Mr. Smith, Mr. Clement, Mr. Nena were hunting 5Mr. Joseph for the purpose of injuring him? 6MR. DERATANY: Objection, improper form, 10A. There is no evidence of that. 12Q. You testified that and your report shows 13that the Assistant District Attorney Jennifer 14McCarty had made the final decision about not to 15prosecute Mr. Smith. Do you recall that testimony? 16A. I don't mean to split hairs. She's an 17Assistant State's Attorney and she chose to reject 19Q. But we're talking about the same person? 21Q. Did at any time you try to go over her 22head to convince her superiors that she made a 23mistake and the case should be prosecuted? Page 197
1Q. During the course of your investigation 2were you satisfied that you interviewed with the 3exception of Kasey every relevant witness? 5Q. Was the decision not to prosecute based 6on, so far as you know and in your participation, 7the complete investigation which included interview 8of the relevant witnesses, getting all of the 9medical report, the toxicology report and the rest 10of the information so that it was based on the 11broadest understanding of what had happened? 13MR. DERATANY: I'm going to object. He's 14indicated multiple times he doesn't make the 15decision, so it requires him to speculate as to 16state of mind as to another individual, form and 20A. I can tell you I presented all of the 21evidence and all of the witnesses and the State 22made their determination. 24Q. Were you aware that Mr. Nena, FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 198
1Mr. Clement and Mr. Smith all were seen by doctors 2and Mr. Nena actually missed several days of work 3based on his injuries, were you aware of that? 4A. I was aware of Mr. Nena and Mr. Clement 5went to the hospital, went to see the doctor. 6Q. Based on your experience, do bruises 7appear instantly when people have been hit or do 9MR. DERATANY: Objection, requires a medical 15Q. Were aware that Mr. Smith's door handle 16was broken and had to be replaced? 17MS. WHITE: Objection as to the form of the 20A. Nodamage was observed by any of my 23Q. And was your understanding that the 24Bishopps were going to their apartment, their Page 199
1residence, were going to -- they are residents of 2the building but they were going to the unit that 3they lived in, is that right? 4A. Can you repeat that? I missed the first 6Q. With respect to the Bishopps, you 7understood that they were residents of the building 8and they were going to the 48th floor where their 10A. They were returning to see if their door 12Q. You were asked some questions about 13whether the group that went to 48 could have waited 14for the police. Do you remember those questions? 16Q. All right. If the 911 calls had been -- 17as you described a Tier 3 or Tier 4 call as they 18were received at 911, is it possible that the 19police response might have been more than an hour? 20MR. DERATANY: Objection, requires 23Q. Based on your experience? 24MR. DERATANY: In this case or generally? Page 200
2A. Generally speaking, it's based off of 3manpower and available units, so there is no 4specific way to answer that. 6Q. So what would be a range of time? 7MS. WHITE: Objection, calls for speculation, 8form of the question, foundation. 9MR. DERATANY: Objection, join. 11A. There is no real range. It just depends 12on the availability of units. It's impossible to 15Q. Could it have been more than hour? 16MR. DERATANY: Counsel, he said it's 17impossible to answer. Objection. You are 21A. Again, it depends on the availability of 22units and how long the response is and how long a Page 201
2Q. And I think I've asked you this but I 3just want to be clear. I apologize if I already 5The time frame between the first contact 6between Mr. Joseph and Mr. Nena, and the time that 7the shots were fired, what's your understanding 8based on your investigation on what that time gap 10MR. DERATANY: This has been covered. Asked 11and answered a couple of times. 15Q. Are you aware that the family of 16Mr. Joseph put together a strategy to put pressure 17on the State’s Attorney's Office to prosecute 19MR. DERATANY: Objection, form, foundation, 20requires speculation, mischaracterizes the FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 202
2Q. Were you aware that they had a marketing 3and communication strategy? 4MR. DERATANY: Objection, form, foundation, 9MR. KING: Give me one second. I may be done. 10I just want to double-check. 11MR. DERATANY: I have two follow-ups when 12that's done, literally two questions. 13MS. WHITE: I have a couple as well. 14MR. WANGLER: If you are going to take a 15break, I've got to make this phone call so can you 17THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Sure. We are off the 19(WHEREUPON, a break was taken.) 20THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're back on the record at 22MR. KING: We're good to go. 23THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Yes, sir. Page 203
2Q. Detective, were you comfortable then and 3are you comfortable now with the decision not to 4prosecute Mr. Smith in connection with this 6MR. DERATANY: I'm going to object to that 10A. It's not about my comfort level. I 11presented the case and the State's Attorney made 13MR. KING: That's all I have. 16Q. The original 911 dispatch call, was it 17your understanding that it reported that there was 18acriminal trespass in progress? 20Q. All right. And with respect to the 21individuals who ultimately went up to the 48th 22floor, at the time that they went up to the 48th 23floor, based on your investigation, do you know if 24they knew who was up there? Page 204
1MR. DERATANY: Objection, requires speculation 2as to what they knew, who knew. 5A. It was related to myself that there was 6a disturbance on the 29th floor and then banging on 7doors on the 48, so they assumed that that person 8moved up to the 48th floor. 10Q. And at the time, did they know that it 11was a building resident? 12MR. DERATANY: Objection, requires speculation 13as to what someone knew. 19A. -- Mr. Nena realized it was a building 24Q. With respect to -- you had some Page 205
1testimony about CIT training and you testified 3Can you just explain, generally, what is 4your understanding of when deadly force is 6A. When it's reasonable and necessary as a 8Q. And ifan officer is being attacked and 9he is being punched or assaulted, is deadly force 12Q. With respect to Mr. Nena -- strike that. 13With respect to Mr. Smith, you 14investigated Mr. Smith for a potential criminal 17Q. And ultimately, the State's Attorney 18decided not to charge, correct? 20Q. With respect to Mr. Nena, you never even 21investigated him for a criminal offense, right? 23Q. And you saw nothing in your 24investigation that would lead you to initiate a FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 206
1criminal investigation against Mr. Nena? 3Q. Orany of the other building residents? 5MR. VAIDYA: No further questions. 9Q. Are you aware of any -- are you aware of 10whether or not you can text to 911, whether a 11member of the public can text with 911? 12A. Prior to this case, I had no knowledge 13ofthat. Because of this case, I contacted 911. 14It is a possibility they related. 15Q. It is a possibility. How is that done, 18MR. DERATANY: Okay. Thank you. I have no 20MS. WHITE: I just have a few. 23Q. Detective, you just mentioned a few 24minutes ago -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- for Page 207
1self defense it has to be -- the attacks have to be 2reasonable, is that correct? 4Q. They also have to be necessary? 6Q. And I think you said that it has to be 7deadly force is used as a last resort, is that 9A. Asapolice officer, yes. 10Q. Okay. And in the State of Illinois, 11this is not a stand your ground state, correct? 12MR. VAIDYA: Objection as to form. 15A. We don't use that terminology, no. 17Q. Okay. There is no law allowing somebody 18to stand their ground on their property like they 19have in other states for example; is that correct? 20MR. VAIDYA: Objection as to form. 21MR. WANGLER: Objection, foundation, if you Page 208
2A. I know Illinois law, I don't know other 5Q. Okay. In addition to the self defense 6things that you testified about a few minutes ago, 7when somebody uses force in a self defense case, 8it's fair to say that that force also has to be 9proportional to the force that's being used against 11MS. WENGER: Objection, form. 16Q. And so you would consider when something 17was proportional, for example, whether or not who 18was the first aggressor, correct? 20Q. You would consider which individuals 21were armed with weapons, correct? 23Q. Whether those weapons were knives, Page 209
1A. The type of weapon, sure. 4Q. And for example, tf someone was unarmed, 5and somebody else had a weapon, that could be a 6situation where it was dis -- and force was used, 7there could be disproportional use of force in that 9MR. VAIDYA: Objection, use of the 10hypothetical and as to form. 11MS. WENGER: Objection, form, incomplete 12hypothetical, calls for speculation. 14MR. DERATANY: Why don't you let her finish 18A. There are cases where it could be 21Q. And when you talked during your 22testimony today, during the course of your 23investigation, you are considering the -- and you 24mentioned this before but I just want to be clear, FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 210
1Mr. Smith’s account of what happened, right? 3Q. Mr. Nena's account of what happened? 7Q. And Mr. Bishopp's, correct, in terms of 8who was on the 48th floor, correct? 10Q. So when you testified when Mr. Nega 11asked you some questions about Mr. Schott -- 12Mr. Schott -- and he showed you your supplemental 13report that he, I believe, testified or made a 14statement, I should say, just to clarify, that he 15heard something to the effect of hitting a meaty -- 16heard something hitting a meaty part of their body 17or something like that. I'm just paraphrasing but 19A. Sure, a punch and meaty. 20Q. During the course of your investigation, 21did Mr. Schott ever tell you that he observed what 22happened with his -- did he see what happened, as 24A. With that punch, he did not. Page 211
1Q. And based on your investigation, he was 2testifying only about what he heard; is that 4A. Atthat portion, yes. He eventually 5looked out of the peephole but that portion, yes, 7Q. And when you had an opportunity to go to 8the Legacy, you had an opportunity to see the doors 9that are on all of the units, correct? 11Q. In your training and experience as a 12police officer, do you think it's possible for 13Mr. Schott to hear a punch through a door? 14MS. WENGER: Objection, calls for speculation. 20Q. What do you base that on? 21A. The gaps under the door for pressure in 23Q. You also testified that you spoke to 24Mr. Bishopp during the course of his -- during the Page 212
1investigation; is that correct? 3Q. And he made statements to you as well as 4to the State's Attorney's Office, is that right? 6Q. And one of the things that Mr. Bishopp 7told you when he was being interviewed is that he 8remembered in the past he would consistently see a 9Chicago police squad parked around the corner from 10his residence and John Bishop then relocated to 11Wabash Avenue and summoned the officer who was 12assigned a fixed post at that location. Do you 13remember him telling you that? 15MS. TRIBBIA: Objection, mischaracterizes the 16report which states that verbatim is only in 18So if there is something in the report, 19objection as to mischaracterizing that Mr. Bishopp 22Q. Do you recall him stating something to 23that effect, Detective Dowling? Page 213
1Q. And so is it your under understanding 2that Mr. Bishopp knew that it was possible to alert 3the police by going to a squad car that was parked 4nearby the building, is that your understanding of 6MS. TRIBBIA: Objection, speculation. 8MR. VAIDYA: Objection as to form, join. 11Q. You were asked questions about the 12jewelry that was found in the hallway that night, 15Q. Did you ever ask Mr. Smith about that 18Q. Did you ever determine in your 19investigation how that jewelry got there? 21Q. I believe that you were also asked 22questions about the 911 call that Mr. Smith made 23and you were asked questions regarding the fact 24that there was a trespasser outside of his front FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 214
1door and someone was going down the hallway trying 2to get into people's building, something to that 4What would have been the responsible 5level from OEMC based on a call regarding a 6trespasser and somebody attempting to get into 8MS. WENGER: Objection, form. 9MR. KING: Objection, calls for speculation. 11A. Those are almost two separate events. 12If you were a trespasser, it would be lower, it 13would be a Priority 3 or a Priority 4, But 14somebody trying to gain access to somebody's 15apartment, that could be higher. That could be 2, 18Q. Are you aware that the Legacy building 19had a communication, an automated communication 20system, in place at the time of this shooting? 21MS. WENGER: Objection. This is beyond the 22scope of the other examination. Page 215
2A. I'm aware the Legacy building has a 5Q. Are you aware that they have any means 6to communicate threats to residents or issues to 7residents in the bidding? 8MS. WENGER: I'm going to have a standing 9objection to this line of questioning. It's beyond 11MR. VAIDYA: I'll also join in that. 15A. I'm not aware of that. 16MS. WHITE: I don't have anything further. 17MR. KING: I have one follow-up. 18MR. WEISS: I think we're going in the same 19order. I'm sorry. I think that's me. 20Detective, I got a few questions. 21MR. WANGLER: Counsel, it's 3:18. We're well 22beyond three hours. So please, if you guys could 23hurry up. I would appreciate it. 24MR. WEISS: No problem. I'll be less than Page 216
4Q. Detective, you didn't prepare any case 5to present to the State's Attorney regarding any 6potential criminal charges against Deborah Romero, 9Q. And that's because you didn't have any 10evidence that Deborah Romero had any culpability in 11Mr. Joseph's death, correct? 12MS. WHITE: Objection as to the form of the 17Q. You didn't present any case to the 18State's Attorney regarding potential criminal 19charges against Dominic Tedaldi, correct? 21Q. And that's because you didn't have any 22evidence that Dominic Tedaldi had any culpability 23in Mr. Joseph's death, correct? 24MS. WHITE: Objection to the form of the Page 217
5Q. And then finally -- and you didn't 6prepare any case to the State's Attorney regarding 7potential charges -- potential criminal charges 8against Sudler & Company, correct? 9A. I don't even know who that company is. 10Q. And that's because you didn't have any 11evidence that Sudler & Company had any culpability 12in Mr. Joseph's death, correct? 13MS. WHITE: Objection to the form of the 17MR. WEISS: Thank you. That's it. 18MS. TRIBBIA: Can I just jump in? 19Technically, it was me, Mike, and then you. That's 23Q. Mike just asked all of those questions. 24Counsel just asked you questions, Mr. -- or FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
Page 218
1Detective Dowling. I'm sorry. 2The questions that he just asked you, 3would you agree that they also apply to Mr. and 5A. What questions are those, I'm sorry? 6Oh, the previous attorney? 8A. Yes, I didn't present any case against 10Q. Okay. You didn’t believe that the 11Bishopps had any culpability as to Mr. Joseph's 13A. I did not believe that, correct. 14MS. TRIBBIA: Okay. Thank you. I'm donc. 17Q. Detective, in the context of self 18defense cases, do you -- is it your understanding 19that there is some legal requirement that somebody 20invoking self defense shoot somebody attacking them 21that they are obligated not to use deadly force and 22to be beaten, to allow themselves to be beaten -- 23MS. WHITE: Objection as to the form of the Page 219
2Q. --is that your understanding at all? 3MS. WHITE: I'm sorry. Objection to the form 6A. That's not my understanding, no. 7MR. KING: That's all I have. Thank you. 8MR. VAIDYA: Anyone else? Mr. Nega? 9MS. WENGER: Do you have anything else? 10MR. NEGA: No, nothing. Thanks for being 12THE WITNESS: Thank you. 13MR. KING: I appreciate the time. Thank you. 15THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Weare off the record a 163:20 p.m. and this concludes today’s testimony 17given by Detective Daniel Dowling. The total 18number of media units used was three and will be 19retained by Veritext Legal Solutions. Page 220
4I, CARIANN WAGNER, a Certified Shorthand 5reporter within and for the County of Cook State of 6Illinois, do hereby certify: 7That previous to the commencement of the 8examination of the witness, the witness was duly 9swom to testify the whole truth conceming the 11That the foregoing deposition transcript 12was reported stenographically by me, was thereafter 13reduced to typewriting under my personal direction 14and constitutes a true record of the testimony 15given and the proceedings had; 16That the said deposition was taken 17before me at the time and place specified; 18That I am nota relative or employee or 19attorney or counsel, nor a relative or employee of 20such attorney or counsel for any of the parties 21hereto, nor interested directly or indirectly in 22the outcome of this action. 23IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I do hereunto set my 24hand and affix my seal of office at Chicago, Page 221
1Illinois, this 10th day of May, 2026. 4C.S.R. Certificate No. 84-003836. FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
&
& 2:3,12 3:2,12
5:3 7:11 8:10
50:21 66:1
67:12,16
194:24 217:8
217:11
0
005346 7:13
010547 7:14
06 13:4
084-003836
1:20 5:24
1
1 4:5 6:14 25:2
25:6 33:14
52:4 79:2
86:11 88:19
89:3 90:16
120:7 175:8,10
178:22 179:2
179:18 214:16
10 6:5 141:11
141:13
100 12:2
10th 221:1
11 50:15
141:11
118 6:7
11:00 1:23
11:11 7:2
11:49 44:11
11:50 44:14
11th 13:18
123 4:13
12:27 79:2
12:37 79:5
13. 141:11,13
13th 25:3
139:21
14 118:14
14th 15:7 36:8
38:21 46:18,19
47:20 49:11
131:21
150 142:16
1500 3:15
151 1:22 3:4
7:15
15th 47:20
49:12 119:12
119:17
16 70:21
164 6:8
170 6:9
173 6:10
177 6:11
17:33 71:14
1800 4:13
18:55 71:24
19 12:1,23
79:23 81:11
106:10 136:15
2
2 5:15 6:15
43:21,23 58:14
70:22 164:6
214:15
20 12:23 81:11
83:8 106:11,11
115:16 136:11
200 5:5
2000 92:1
165:6
2023 15:7,20
50:8,15 64:15
65:6,19 68:7
72:19,23 75:13
86:17 118:14
133:19 175:2
2023091419...
44:3 70:14
2024 7:13,14
51:14 52:4
53:21 56:19
57:9 88:19
89:3 101:20
102:21 104:7
104:11 122:7
122:17 133:15
175:23
20241005346
1:6
20241010547
1:7
2025 58:14
59:2 60:3 67:8
76:5 88:9 89:8
90:10,16 105:1
115:17 175:6,7
2026 1:237:2
221:1
2027 87:19
2028 87:19
203 6:5
2030 87:19
206 6:6,7
2129 221:3
213 76:19
177:6 195:8,19
214 25:3
216 6:9
217 6:8
218 6:11
22 14:3 175:16
175:20
2200 2:14
221 2:14
23 33:16 88:9
175:2
230 3:15
23362891 53:22
2342 31:7
24 175:16,20
189:17
25° «6:14 33:16
105:6,7
2500 = 1:22 3:4
7:15
Page 1
[& - 2500]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
2600 5:5
26th 123:4
27 1:23 7:2
28 50:8 56:19
28th 91:3
29th 30:5 32:3
36:21 46:8
90:24 91:3
132:18,20
167:23 181:2
204:6
2:03 164:6
2:12 164:10
2:57 202:18
3
3 6:16 14:6
31:6 49:2
53:21 70:18
76:19 119:13
123:20 164:10
179:13,20
195:8,19
199:17 214:13
30 57:9
30s 194:6
312 2:7,16 3:6
3:17 4:15 5:7
5:17
321 2:5
3815 4:5
382-3100 4:15
384-0500 3:17
3:06 202:21
3:18 215:21
3:20 219:16
4
4 6:17 85:18,23
133:19 178:23
179:3,13
199:17 214:13
40 109:24
110:2,10
40th 30:3
43 6:15
458-1000 2:7
48 199:13
204:7
48th 26:2 28:21
28:23 29:3,15
32:4,6 37:10
37:13,14 40:12
40:13,23 73:22
90:24 91:3
92:13,23 94:20
95:10,18,22
96:10 145:11
146:23 147:9
150:2,5 152:21
153:12 154:7
154:10 155:18
156:12 159:3,9
159:17 160:9
161:16 162:1,§
163:4,7,14,17
163:20 167:9
167:12 168:2,7
168:10,14,19
170:3 173:13
173:14,19
181:1 199:8
203:21,22
204:8 210:8
4:15 71:2
4th 57:4 104:11
5
5 65:6
50 142:15
587-7910 4:7
5th 86:7
5we 79:2
, 6
60 26:2 99:24
| 171:2 181:20
| 60174 = 4:6
| 60601 «2:15 5:6
| 60602 5:16
60606 3:5,16
4:14
60654 2:6
630 4:7 14:5
66 123:6
7
» | 7 59:2 60:3
67:8 76:5 89:8
90:10,16
70 6:16
704-3000 3:6
744-0220 5:17
79 6:6
7:21 141:2,14
7:34 141:6,16
Tth 59:12 86:8
86:9
8
8 51:14
815-6231 2:16
819-1100 5:7
84-003836
221:4
85 6:17
9
9 19:14
900 2:5
911 26:9 31:17
46:1 58:19,19
73:10 95:2,9
95:18,20,23
96:5,9,14,17
97:20,23 98:1
98:4,5 140:18
141:3,7,12,14
154:7 159:18
159:20,22
160:14 171:3
178:10,10,18
179:6 199:16
199:18 203:16
206:10,11,13
213:22
Page 2
[2600 - 911]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
a
am. 1:23 7:2
44:11,14
ability 11:12
able 44:23
45:15 48:16
51:10 55:22
56:3 58:7,10
71:16 73:12
134:12 189:20
abnerd 1:5
15:22 36:2
37:15,18 41:15
42:2,5,9 45:1
48:17 51:5
54:2,12 59:8
63:18 64:19
68:15 69:11
71:18 78:12
91:7 100:1,18
100:19 101:10
102:1,4,9,13
105:22 107:3
107:17,21
111:24 117:7
118:4 120:21
——-124:5,10,15,18
124:24 137:18
138:9 140:5
147:10 151:1
153:14 167:20
171:4 174:3
177:2 187:11
188:1 194:4
abrasion 35:17
35:18 92:6
188:14
abrasions
91:20
absolutely 24:4
30:24 106:14
110:18 112:11
114:22 115:3
136:21 181:18
academy 13:2,5
accept 90:2
access 68:19
214:14
accident 179:3
accidentally
19:22
account 39:21
39:23 41:5
210:1,3
accounts 54:6
54:18
accurate 11:8
62:14 85:14
act 156:15
157:4
acting 19:5
action 7:22
17:24 220:22
actions 82:10
161:8
acts 172:18
actual 41:24
47:13 90:22
91:17 96:5
140:2
actually 42:4
61:24 74:11
103:16 124:14
133:19 170:20
173:14 178:10
190:1 198:2
-add 45:16
“adderall 54:3
62:10 166:2,6
166:10
addition
122:21 123:16
208:5
additional 48:6
49:9 63:12
87:8 135:16
adequately
29:16
administrator
1:4
admitted
137:15 138:24
advancing
187:11
advise 96:19
97:3 98:5
advised 166:1,2
171:2
affiliation 8:4
affix 220:24
afternoon 15:8
79:9 118:3,6
170:12
aggravated
a ys
aggressive
69:23
aggressor 39:2
78:3,4 113:10
113:12,13,18
174:10 208:18
ago 206:24
208:6
agree 7:7 76:3
76:6 103:12
107:5 111:6
115:10 169:1]
169:12 218:3
agreeing 90:1
ahead 25:2
27:9 34:23
81:20 83:24
85:7 108:4
121:5 148:17
190:3
aid 165:13
188:12
aime 68:9,12
68:24 69:7
al 7:11
alarm 26:16
alcohol 165:11
165:18,19
Page 3
[a.m. - alcohol]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
alert 213:2
alive 69:8
126:9
allegedly
150:24
allow 218:22
allowed 68:19
147:12,24
148:13
allowing
207:17
altercation
35:21 38:21
39:3 124:23
125:11 129:22
130:10 131:4
amount 38:1
81:13 126:18
amundsen 4:3
9:13
analysis 48:20
137:12 138:6
138:20 139:7
139:14 140:15
analyze 23:5
andrew 1:10
4:9 9:13
173:17,22
174:2,6
andy 32:12
37:7,21 42:19
42:22,24 49:2
50:9 73:19
77:16 91:15,2:
150:16 173:7
174:9 176:23
177:3
announce
39:14
anshuman 3:3
anshunan 8:7
answer 10:17
34:24 53:1
83:4 177:7
178:14 181:7
190:19 200:4
200:13,17
answered
90:17 99:14
148:16 157:19
182:12 201:11
answers 10:9
113:8
anybody 20:14
24:16 113:13
148:7 158:21
165:2,4,13
169:6 180:17
184:1
anyplace 181:2
apart 29:19
apartment 29:
29:11 41:3
45:13 68:18,2(
139:21 164:23
| 180:16 194:7
198:24 214:15
2
apologies
174:19
apologize 84:2
201:3
apologized
191:6
appear 35:13
35:23 38:3
54:13 55:16
57:1 129:16
130:9,17 198:7
appearance 8:1]
8:3 192:13
appearances
2:1 3:1 4:1 5:1
appeared 2:9
2:18 3:8,20 4:8
4:17 5:9,18
31:16 130:3
_ | appearing
144:11
appears 12:12
applicable
74:10
apply 10:11
, 20:18 218:3
appointment
8 55:12
appreciate
) 215:23 219:13
apprehension
22:1
approached
184:22
appropriate
117:18 149:12
180:22
approve 75:11
76:7
approved 86:8
approximately
50:8 61:17
63:23 64:11,15
141:2,6,11,13
| april) 1:23 7:2
|} area 14:6 30:13
31:6 49:2 98:7
119:13 123:20
armed 145:22
156:15,15
| 157:5 158:4,18
208:21
arrange 55:5
array 24:20
arrest 16:24
21:19,22 22:14
arrested 22:4
arrival 26:6
arrive 160:18
162:1
arrived 26:19
40:13 150:20
153:9 157:17
177:18 181:12
181:20 192:10
asa 34:10 52:1-
53:8 57:13
59:1,4 60:3
Page 4
[alert - asa]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
68:2 75:10,17
89:23 90:5,5
104:12,13,19
119:11,16
120:2 132:9
175:23 176:5
aside 29:18
169:23
asked 59:16
60:8 67:12
90:17 105:12
118:8 [22:24
133:13 135:2
139:17 148:16
157:19 166:23
167:5 189:13
190:8 199:12
201:2,4,10
210:11 213:11
213:21,23
217:23,24
218:2
asking 75:14
84:15 169:2
182:4
aspect 33:4
assault 13:9
185:18
assaulted
158:22 169:2]
185:10 205:9
assessment
32:23
assigned 14:13
15:5,8,21 16:5
16:8,18 25:21
104:1 212:12
assignment
14:4,9,16,19
15:7 16:1,11
assignments
13:15 14:8
assistance
181:1
assistant 34:2
49:8 52:8
62:21 88:21
116:11 196:13
196:17
assisted 30:4
association 1:8
3:9
assume 10:18
45:1 58:9
172:5
assumed 204:7
assuming 27:16
attached
109:16
attacked 37:18
37:19 39:10
205:8
attacking
218:20
attacks 207:1
attempted 73:7
114:1
attempting
214:6
attempts 56:9
attended
175:23 176:4
attention 15:19
131:16,19
attorney 8:5
23:11 34:2
49:8 52:9,22
65:7,11,24
66:22 67:11
68:3 74:13
75:18 76:12
80:23 88:12,21
89:17 103:7
105:17 116:3
116:12,15
119:6 123:3
196:13,17
203:11 205:17
216:5,18 217:6
218:6 220:19
220:20
attorney's 17:9
17:10 22:6,16
22:19 33:2,23
34:1,7,15 35:6
45:6 49:4,7
50:13 51:15
52:6 53:17
55:5,11 56:11
56:16 57:2,10
59:1 64:3 65:2
67:7,24 71:11
77:13 81:2
103:11 122:6
133:16 143:11
143:18,20
201:17 212:4
attorneys 34:16
58:22,23 59:8
60:17 61:18,23
62:4,4 67:11
67:17,19 74:2
74:3,4 80:18
84:6 115:18
123:1 156:9
audio 6:15,16
7:5 43:17
44:21 51:5,10
70:14,19,23
71:20 72:2
96:5
august 56:19
104:7 122:7,16
122:17 175:23
authored 86:4
authorization
72:13
authorize
53:17 66:23
authorized
205:5
authorizing
67:1
autistic 19:14
Page 5
[asa - autistic]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
automated
140:24 214:19
autopsy 47:24
54:24 127:8
avaidya 3:7
availability
200:12,21
available
110:23 159:16
200:3
ave 11:1
avenue 212:11
aware 16:7
21:1 26:4,6,8
26:10,14,15,17
67:23 70:2
118:17 120:15
120:18 121:9
121:12 124:5
142:20 143:12
143:18 145:3
155:22 162:21
190:23 195:12
197:24 198:3,4
198:15 201:15
202:2 206:9,9
214:18 215:2,5
215:15
awhile 13:22
b
b 1:76:12
back 15:7,19
25:17 30:13
35:18 36:5
37:3 40:21,23
44:13 64:4
72:19 75:12
92:13 105:7
120:20 130:4
141:21 144:3
144:13 150:16
151:10 154:17
164:21 167:13
168:6 187:13
188:15 202:20
background
43:18 63:21
97:18 107:2
194:4
backing 135:14
backwards
169:19 185:8
band 188:12
bandage 92:9
bandaged
35:17
| | banging 72:7
204:6
bank 73:21
153:14
bar 76:10
base 211:20
baseboard 29:7
based 69:10
100:19 106:10
125:2 129:20
132:23 146:8
146:22 147:11
150:4 152:20
153:16 158:10
158:16 159:15
163:2 170:15
189:3 197:5,10
198:3,6 199:23
200:2 201:8
203:23 211:1
214:5
basic 20:7
29:17
basically 22:15
25:15 57:21
60:7 61:18
64:5,23 72:14
87:20 116:4
192:24
basis 76:1,18
78:15 162:13
bates 25:3
bathrobe 70:7
108:12 114:13
124:6
bathroom
78:23
batteries 15:1
beaten 218:22
218:22
/ | becoming
62:13
began 13:4,17
31:14 43:3
beginning 8:4
25:17 75:4
117:17 164:9
behalf 2:9,18
3:8,20 4:8,17
| 5:9,18 8:16,23
9:8,10,12,14
194:14
behaving 54:7
70:7 165:17
behavior 55:1
69:12,22 102:3
102:13 134:21
169:16 190:11
190:11,13,13
belief 19:5,6
believe 53:3
56:23 59:8,22
65:24 66:12
70:14 118:8
119:17,18
122:7,10
127:22 133:14
134:2,22,24
139:18,22
140:1 141:5
150:23 153:1
168:16 170:21
171:24 183:17
194:23 210:13
213:21 218:10
218:13
believed 34:19
40:20 121:17
Page 6
[automated - believed]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
belmont 31:7
ben 5:22 7:17
bent 41:10,14
41:15,17 42:7
47:14 53:5
55:6 56:21
99:18,19,20
100:17,20
101:7 104:8
139:19 140:8
bent's 139:17
bernard 45:10
45:18 46:24
122:4 174:13
175:24
best 5:3 10:9
79:14 115:13
184:14 185:4
186:4
bestfirm.com
5:8
beyond 214:21
215:9,22
bidding 215:7
bien 68:9,12,24
69:7
big 16:21 20:7
177:24
biological
100:6 138:11
138:15
bishop 164:15
169:12 170:2
212:10
bishopp 1:11
1:11 5:10 9:11
40:20 41:2,3
49:17 119:24
120:20 125:19
126:3 128:2,13
128:13 133:4
145:10,10
150:10,22
151:18 152:1,2
153:13,18
161:5,15
163:13,16
167:15 168:5,9
168:18 174:8
184:8 211:24
212:6,19 213:2
218:4
bishopp's
161:8 210:7
bishopps 32:12
37:7 40:1,9,22
41:1,5 47:1
49:19 73:18
77:19,23
142:22 149:24
151:15 152:8
152:12,24
153:9,11 156:7
195:16 196:3
198:24 199:6
218:9,11
bit 24:7 29:13
36:6 80:6
164:17,18
175:19 180:15
black 40:13
blanchard 3:12
blandin 2:3
50:21 66:1
67:12,16 195:1
blaring 180:7
block 62:22
blood 29:5,18
29:23 38:6
42:1 54:3,15
92:5 126:18
127:3 137:23
138:2 140:10
140:11 188:3
188:17
blows 37:23
board 89:18
boarded 73:21
168:2
boarding
167:19
body 47:8
118:22 119:2,6
138:9 139:3,10
146:9 155:13
210:16
branch 123:6
brandish
— 114:12
break 10:22,23
44:12 69:22
78:23 79:4
96:21 164:8
202:15,19
breakdown
112:10 114:14
115:2
breakdowns
109:19
breaking 31:16
breath 108:6
brian 64:20
68:8,12 190:23
191:2,5 194:23
brief 32:1
177:21,23
briefly 15:10
27:2 28:15
43:2 139:16
bring 22:24
23:3
broad 84:19
157:13 158:5
broadest
197:11
broken 29:22
43:13 91:2,5,8
133:2 198:16
brother 41:16
41:16,21,23
42:1 47:13
62:2 64:20
68:8 69:8
100:3,6,6,13
106:8,13
107:10 117:3
Page 7
[belmont - brother]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
166:1
brothers
100:21 101:9
101:16 191:2
brought 23:1,3
79:12 89:15
103:18 104:2,5
116:12 117:12
bruises 91:20
198:6
bruising 38:5
92:6
build 22:14
27:5
building 22:10
27:17,22 28:1€
28:18 30:7
36:8,12,24
37:8 42:56
47:11 70:10
72:22,24 99:24
147:22 155:24
158:19 173:18
180:22 181:21
181:22 183:22
199:2,7 204:11
204:19 206:3
211:22 213:4
214:2,18 215:2
bullet 29:6
bullets 29:18
bump 38:17
bunch 10:14
167:7
bunched
184:14
burglary 14:12
business 86:15
193:21
butt 144:14
| | button 73:5
94:18 95:4
130:4 215:3
c
ce 122:5
es.r. 5:23
221:4
california
. 123:4
| call 42:4,8
52:17 59:12
61:12,20 63:7
64:6 65:8,19
69:3 85:2,2
| 95:18,21,24
96:9,14,17
98:6 105:18
109:5 141:16
158:21 171:2
| 178:22 179:5
179:18,20
| 199:17 200:23
| 202:15 203:16
213:22 214:5
called 1:14 10::
17:15 24:24
26:9 31:17
34:1 45:24
46:1 58:19
64:4 73:10
93:3 95:9
100:17 105:21
110:6 141:12
141:14 158:17
159:18,20
160:12,14
170:20,23
178:10,10
caller 53:4
callers 160:16
calling 109:4
170:24
calls 26:11
36:20,23 37:10
62:4 63:6,11
63:22 67:15
78:7 81:17
84:17 87:13
92:14 94:6
98:1,4 99:8
107:24 108:16
108:18 115:19
126:20 129:23
130:13,21
140:18,23
146:16 147:16
147:17 148:17
) 148:18 151:3
154:19 155:6
156:18 157:21
160:20 166:19
178:18,19
180:9 182:16
188:20 191:9
192:5 199:16
200:7 209:12
211:14 214:9
camera 32:19
119:2,6 127:20
127:22 155:13
cameras 29:17
118:23
canceled 55:13
cannibis 54:4
canvass 24:13
capacity 35:20
74:12
captured 43:17
43:18 118:22
128:11
car 26:24 213:3
card 31:21
193:21
care 100:22
101:2 107:22
career 12:1
13:13,15,17
14:22 142:13
eari 7:19
cariann 1:19
5:23 220:4
carpet 138:3
carry 31:23
cars 26:21
Page 8
[brother - cars]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
case 1:66:17
7:13 8:17 9:6
12:4,5 15:15
16:6 18:13,19
19:13 21:24
22:7,10,12,14
23:2,6,6 24:9
24:10,18,22
25:15,18,21
32:23 33:15,20
34:13 51:16
52:18 53:13
57:19 59:13
60:2,5,18,20
64:24 74:8,24
75:15,17,18
76:1,1,9 79:11
79:14,16 80:15
81:3,22,24
82:1 85:5
87:17,18 89:8
103:22 104:1
106:20 112:5
114:15,17
115:13 116:2
118:5 120:15
127:19 142:24
143:20 146:10
149:23 158:4
164:16 169:8
172:22 173:7
175:1,12 184:2
193:3 195:22
196:18,23
199:24 203:11
206:12,13
208:7 209:8
216:4,17 217:6
218:8
cases 13:9
14:23 19:2
67:3 172:20
209:18 218:18
casings 29:8
48:12
cataloging
165:10
catching
173:10
categories
178:24
cause 20:13
caused 39:2
42:10 151:10
causes 82:16
causing 32:3
cell 43:16 50:17
50:20 60:7
66:3,7 107:3
certain 21:5
25:5 43:22
68:20 70:16
85:17 112:16
165:17
certainly
101:23
certificate 5:24
221:4
certified 1:20
220:4
certify 220:6
chain 95:17
change 135:18
changing
187:11
characterize
111:8.177:23
charge 16:24 —
17:5,15,19
18:9,17 19:9
19:18 21:23
22:20 33:11
53:13,18 74:23
75:3,6,12
76:13 80:11,16
80:22 81:8,15
82:7,22,22
87:9,21 89:15
90:7,13 104:22
105:8 117:11
117:13,14,18
205:18
charged 17:22
19:4 23:9,13
66:11 120:22
charges 20:1 ©
22:24 23:1
60:11 66:17,23
67:1,7 74:5,6
74:10,14 75:15
76:4,7,8 77:13
78:16 80:7,18 ©
80:19,23 87:11
87:17 89:12
90:9 102:1,2
103:10,17
104:2 106:1
107:1 113:5
115:23 116:12
216:6,19 217:7
217:7
charging 35:7
36:3 57:23
58:7 64:4 65:3
74:2 124:18
173:22
charles 1:4
2:19 4:6 7:10
47:17 61:12,16
62:7,12,23
63:8,13 64:8
64:17,19 66:6
66:9,16,21
67:21 68:7
105:13,13
106:5,22 107:9
115:15 165:24
166:13,17
194:22
charter 62:22
check 100:17
123:8 133:5
151:19,23
152:7 202:10
checking
194:16
Page 9
[case - checking]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
chest 40:14
127:3
chicago 1:23
2:6,15 3:5,16
4:14 5:6,13,16
7:16 8:23
12:15,22 13:2
13:5,15,18
14:6 20:8 22:5
26:22 35:9
42:16 43:7
45:8,17 46:7
48:3 69:2 74:3
82:2 93:6
109:8 111:1,1¢€
136:23 188:13
212:9 220:24
child 19:15
chose 160:23
161:2,5 196:17
chris 9:10
164:15
christina 5:4
ci 75:19
circuit 1:1 7:12
circumstance
136:13
circumstances
183:12
cit 109:10,12
109:21,23
110:23 111:10
111:21 112:7
112:19 113:6
114:9,19,20
189:16,20,21
189:22 205:1
city 5:13 8:23
12:9 189:23
citywide 13:20
civil 1:16 12:4
12:5 59:14
120:16 142:23
civilians 109:1¢
claim 67:2 77:6
89:19,21
120:21 147:14
148:14 149:4
) | claiming
148:11
clarify 122:23
127:17 210:14
clark 2:5
| classification
86:10
classify 82:3
cleaning 194:7
clear 33:20
| 76:10 88:8
120:6 122:22
123:10 128:9
128:18 140:22
148:11 168:17
172:23 201:3
209:24
cleared 6:14
25:4 33:15
clement [:10
4:9 9:13 27:20
28:13 32:13
37:21 42:19,22
42:24 46:23
49:21 73:19
77:16,23 91:15
91:23 119:21
121:10,21
) 125:22 128:2
| 128:14 130:7
131:16 132:4
142:22 145:10
149:24 150:16
151:22 153:24
156:6,10
163:19 169:19
173:7,12,18,22
174:3,6,10
176:23 177:3
184:7 185:8,16
186:1,7,17
195:16 196:4
198:1,4
clement's 50:9
151:23 210:5
close 25:15
41:16 101:3,6
101:10 102:14
137:9 185:7
closed 6:14
24:23 25:4
76:10 80:15
88:8 120:7
closer 24:24
25:12
closing 88:15
closure 33:22
clothing 144:4
clyvs 7:17
cocaine 54:3
code 1:16
coleman 91:24
collapsing
178:2
colleagues
123:19,22
college 63:19
come 22:11,11
50:19 108:11
109:6 113:24
129:1 141:21
159:22 194:6
comes 15:4
comfort 203:10
comfortable
203:2,3
coming 92:5
123:23 130:8,8
130:20
commencem...
220:7
comment
107:13
committed
23:20
committing
18:5 24:5 88:4
Page 10
[chest - committing]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
common 75:24
76:2 106:19
commonality
115:5
commonly 54:4
communicate
67:9 215:6
communicated
67:21
communication
202:3 214:19
214:19
company 1:7
4:18 7:11
172:21 217:8,9
217:11
complete 183:4
197:7
completed
86:24
components
81:18
conceal 31:23
concept 19:3
concerned
62:13
concerning
220:9
concerns
180:21
conclude 69:11
concluded 78:2
concludes
219:16
conclusion
69:16 78:8
147:17 148:18
156:19 198:10
condense
104:18
condition 11:11
16:4 29:15
condo 3:9
29:17 40:5
41:3 152:24
condominium
1:8
conduct 27:23
94:12 104:4
conducted
75:11 86:22
118:12,18
127:8
conducting
20:9 72:2
118:16 119:2
136:2
conduit 194:14
conference
61:20 64:6
65:8,19 105:18
conferenced
115:20
confirm 48:22
confront 96:20
147:24 148:7
157:5,16
194:10
confronted
190:12,14
connection
35:10 46:20
61:1 203:4
cons 1:7
conscious
125:23
consciousness
43:2 126:2
consider 68:16
74:22 136:7
208:16,20
considered
111:16 113:17
considering
209:23
consistent
35:24 39:22
41:6 50:3 54:5
55:1 118:10
135:19
consistently
212:8
consolidated
7:14
conspiracy
77:22 78:16
constantly
187:10
constitutes
220:14
consumed
166:10
contact 41:21
41:24 47:10
59:1 67:17
72:10 73:7
99:23 100:1,20
194:23 201:5
contacted
47:16 49:4
51:15 74:3,4
154:7 206:13
contacts 141:3
141:7
context 218:17
continue 7:6
114:21 115:6
115:14
continued 5:1
13:13
continuing
13:8 41:12
75:18,22 77:9
115:23
contradicts
136:12
contributed
172:18
contributes
24:17
conversation
32:2 41:22
42:1 107:15
conversations
7:4 95:20
113:23 115:15
Page 11
[common - conversations]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
116:6 171:23
convey 36:14
36:16 37:5
41:18 45:16
46:7
conveyed 36:18
115:22 116:11
convicted 18:4
convince
196:22
cook 1:1,21
7:12 17:9,10
35:5 65:1 67:3
116:2 220:3,5
cooperate
178:5
corner 29:12
212:9
corporation
12:19 172:16
172:22
correct 12:20
27:18 30:22
32:17 34:4
36:10 42:20
45:11 47:6
48:8,24 49:10
49:20 56:23
60:4 62:15
64:10 66:2
T7715 78:17
79:19,20 80:9
80:13,24 81:8
81:15 82:2
83:1,11 84:7
86:12,15,19,20
86:24 87:4,6
87:21,22 88:6
88:9 89:1,5,9
3 89:10 90:10,16
91:1,8,11 92:4
92:7,8,10,23,2¢
94:13,20 95:10
97:7,9 100:3,7
100:14,22
101:21 102:16
102:22 104:8
104:13,23
105:3,10
107:10 110:11
112:14 113:18
114:8,14
115:12,22
116:19 118:10
118:23 119:18
119:19,22
120:1,12,13
121:15 122:8
122:14,19,20
123:11,12,14
123:15,24
124:1,7,8,11,1:
124:16,21
125:3,4,11,17
125:20,24
126:4,6,10
127:8,9,12,20
127:21,23,24
128:15,21,23
129:2 132:5,12
133:8,9,16
134:5 135:8
136:4 137:1,5
137:24 138:1,3
138:13,16
| 139:4,5,11,12
140:1,8,9,12,12
140:16,19,23
141:4,8 142:2
142:24 143:12
145:5,11,21,23
146:5 147:5,8
150:2,3,6
151:2,16,17,20
151:21 152:5,9
152:10,12,15
152:18 153:1,3
153:12,19,20
153:22,23
154:1,5,8,9,14
155:5,19,22
156:1,2,4,7,8
158:8,9,12,20
158:23 159:9
159:13,18
) 160:7,11,12,13
160:15,18,19
160:24 161:1,3
161:4,13,22
162:1,5,18,24
163:1 165:23
166:3,11,12
167:18,23,24
168:3,4,14,20
168:21 169:5,8
169:13,14,21
169:22 170:3,4
170:19 172:15
172:19 173:19
173:20,23,24
176:6,18
178:12,16
182:24 183:24
185:21 204:23
205:16,18,19
205:22 206:4
206:24 207:2,3
207:8,11,19
208:18,21,24
209:8 210:6,7
210:8 211:3,9
211:10 212:1
213:13,14
216:7,8,11,15
216:19,20,23
217:3,8,12,16
218:12,13
correctly 65:5
103:16 104:3
correspond
36:4
corridor 184:9
corroborate
177:1
counsel 7:9 8:2
9:2,17 12:16
Page 12
[conversations - counsel]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
80:3 105:12
107:18 113:9
139:17 141:17
167:6 169:2
200:16 215:21
217:24 220:19
220:20
counsel's 12:19
counter 123:9
country 111:13
county 1:1,2,21
7:12,12 17:9
17:10 35:5
65:1 67:4
116:2 220:3,5
couple 30:8,11
32:12 37:7
90:21 144:19
144:21 164:19
201:11 202:13
course 41:22
78:24 86:2,15
96:4 110:1,2
110:15 119:7
120:16 124:13
125:7 129:4
132:7,24 136:9
136:24 142:13
145:2 146:24
| 151:14 153:10
153:17 171:19
171:21 195:3
195:14 196:3
197:1 209:22
210:20 211:24
court 1:1,17
7:12,19 9:1
10:12 11:1,2
11:20 17:1
39:15
courtroom
10:10 12:6
covered 164:18
201:10
covers 20:5
cozen 4:11 9:7
cozen.com 4:16
cpd = 132:20
crackers 40:15
crawl 43:3
crawled 150:16
created 149:8
creating 22:3
crime 16:16,17
18:22 20:11
23:22 29:1
68:16,19,21
93:7,13,14,20
——-98:2,8 99:4.5
136:14,20
137:12 138:6
138:17,20
139:7,14
140:15 173:23
crimes 13:10
13:22 14:6,11
14:14 93:15
94:13
criminal 59:13
66:17 77:22
78:16 90:9
147:22 148:8
159:7,7 168:18
173:17 203:18
205:14,21
206:1 216:6,18
217:7
crisis 189:19
194:11
criteria 149:19
critical 13:23
109:9,22
cross 78:20
cs8015366 1:24
esr 1:19
-ctribbia 5:8
culbertson 3:2
8:10
culpability
216:10,22
217:11 218:11
culture 62:2]
current 13:3
14:4
currently 11:10
12:10,14 14:13
custody 21:3
21:13,15,19,23
22:2,10 35:10
81:2 134:24
191:24
custom 98:15
customarily
97:16 98:5
customary
108:14
cut 131:9
175:19
cyclical 111:3
ee oe
d 1:7 2:4 6:2
8:8
damage 1[59:7
| = 198:20
damaged 133:2
dan 8:22,23
danger 147:13
148:14
dangerous
149:8 168:7,10
173:13
daniel 1:14
5:14 6:4 7:9
10:1 219:17
data 51:7
date 33:14
46:16 59:3,23
60:12 75:12
86:5 88:15
119:10 133:18
194:1
dated 88:8
david 8:9
Page 13
[counsel - david]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
davis 4:3 9:13
day 42:5 47:19
47:23 52:5
56:23 64:2,13
119:12 122:16
132:10 170:21
191:2 221:1
days 14:19
53:20 191:3
198:2
deadly 205:2,4
205:9 207:7
218:21
dean 62:21
death 8:16
15:21 18:1,6
20:1,13 118:5
172:19 216:11
216:23 217:12
218:12
deborah 1:9
4:19 9:9 72:11
72:13 170:13
216:6,10
deceased 1:5
decedent 37:24
decedent's
50:17 70:15
december
50:15 57:9
65:6,19 86:7,8
86:9,17,22
decide 21:21
decided 55:10
89:11 92:13
94:19 95:21
205:18
decides 17:11
decision 52:22
57:23 58:7
60:16 65:3
66:7 67:7,9
74:2 76:4
80:23 89:14
90:12 103:9
105:8 196:14
197:5,15 203:3
203:12
decisions 59:17
declined 55:9
deescalate
111:21,23
114:9 115:10
149:11
deescalating
112:9
deescalation
110:7,17
| 113:21 114:1,4
114:6 149:19
149:21 189:15
190:7,9
defamation
8:17 9:5 79:11
79:14
defendant 3:8
3:20 4:8 7:10
9:12 14:6 21:3
defendants
1:12 4:17 5:9
8:9,17 9:5,11
defense 19:5
23:17,18,21
24:3 33:3,10
34:19 35:24
67:2,4 75:8
76:15 77:2,5
79:11 89:19,21
102:7,7 147:14
148:12,14
149:4 207:1
208:5,7 218:18
| 218:20
define 97:13
definitely 38:6
108:6,8,24
definition
66:13
definitions
84:19
degree 17:16
17:19,20,23
18:5,9,12,12,1:
18:15,16,19,24
19:4 67:8 74:5
74:6,14,19,22
75:6 79:19
80:3,4 82:5,5
83:10 86:11,1
87:24 89:4,12
90:7 104:22
105:9,10
117:18
delbert 1:4
2:18 7:10
47:17 61:12,16
62:7 63:8,13
64:8,17,19
68:7 105:13,13
106:5,22
115:15 191:1,6
194:5,8,14
delelio 46:3,6,8
56:11
demeanor
129:20
department 1:2
7:13 12:15,22
20:8 22:6
26:22 47:2
69:3 93:6
109:5,9,14
111:2,11
112:15 136:23
188:13
departments
3 111:12
— ; dependent
157:12
depending
21:24 22:1
136:21 154:23
155:2
depends 102:1°
127:4 153:4
Page 14
[davis - depends]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
200:11,21
deployed 13:21
deponent 5:18
deposition 1:14
7:8,15 10:24
12:7,8 25:6
43:23 70:17
85:18 113:9
220:11,16
depositions
1:18 120:16
142:23
deratany 2:12
2:13 6:6 9:4,5
34:22 39:12,16
54:8,20 58:1
69:15 76:17
77:8 78:9,20
78:24 79:8,10
$1:19,23 83:5
83:7,22 84:3
84:13,21 85:1
85:6,11,20
87:14 90:20
91:12 92:17
93:17,19 94:11
95:6,8,12 96:1
96:7 97:5,15
98:14 99:1,13
99:16 101:4,14
101:18 108:10
109:2 112:6
113:1 117:9,21
117:24 122:24
162:12 166:20
169:9 170:5
177:5 178:13
179:10,24
180:12 181:4
181:23 182:18
184:17 185:12
185:18 186:9
186:22 187:8
187:20 188:22
189:6 190:3,16
191:11 192:6
192:17 193:4
194:19 195:7
195:18 196:6
197:13 198:9
199:20,24
200:9,16
201:10,19
202:4,11 203:6
204:1,12,17
206:6,8,18
209:14
derivative 54:3
describe 12:24
13:1 14:7
38:13 40:18
described
45:19 199:17
describes 176:9
designated
67:16
desk 31:17,20
40:17 46:1
127:24 128:3
128:14,17
129:6,11 130:9
130:12,19
156:3 180:23
detain 193:7
detained 21:12
21:14
detective 7:9
8:23 10:6
13:24 14:2,5,8 —
14:15,23 15:14
15:20 16:2,17
16:22 21:2
31:6 34:9,24
35:20 43:20
52:15 61:8
62:1 71:3 72:1
74:13 79:9
81:5,11 85:13
87:15 93:5,22
94:9 97:6
105:19 107:20
108:15 110:13 ©
117:24 118:3
132:18 136:3
136:10 142:14
142:19 148:11
164:14 170:12
170:20 173:6
174:1,12,20
175:12,16
177:7,16
192:19 203:2
206:23 212:23
215:20 216:4
218:1,17
219:11,17
detective's
122:11
detectives
21:21 112:15
165:3
detention 21:17
determination
22:22 74:9
193:1 197:22
determinations
136:19
determine 17:2
17:5 23:8,12
44:23 48:16
58:4 71:16
92:12 95:19
165:16 213:18
determined
33:22 133:11
determining
23:24
develop 198:8
diagnose
189:20
difference
18:11 21:10,11
21:18 82:6
105:24 185:23
differences
80:7 82:4
Page 15
[depends - differences]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
different 14:7,'
60:18,21 80:1
83:5,15 90:5
106:20 112:5
114:16,18
120:10 123:16
127:2 150:15
162:16 169:3,8
182:20,21
differently 84::
difficult 89:20
dinner 40:12
direct 183:8,21
direction
128:23 129:10
130:20 150:24
153:18,21,24
154:3 220:13
directly 45:13
67:21 123:8
171:24 220:21
dis 209:6
disagree 76:3,6
103:12
disagreeing
90:1
discharged
103:17
discovery 1:19
discussed 46:2:
52:11 57:16
64:21 89:16
129:6
3 | discussion
88:18
discussions
113:3
disheveled
144:11
disparaging
107:13
dispatch 26:11
8 26:15 140:18
203:16
dispatched
200:23
disproportional
209:7,19
disprove 89:21
disproving
89:19
dispute 141:9
distance 184:6
184:15 185:1,5
186:6,13 187:4
187:10,17
189:4,10
distributing
194:17
district 13:18
196:13
districts 109:1¢
3 | disturbance
26:12 29:21
32:3 36:21
46:2,9 171:1,4
179:6,9 182:7
204:6
division 1:2
7:13 16:2,17
31:6 34:9
52:15 62:1
170:21
dixon 5:22 7:17
doctor 198:5
doctor's 38:23
doctors 198:1
document 25:5
25:9 43:22
70:16 85:17
documentation
24:9
doing 34:8
37:17 38:18
42:10 82:10
domestic 179:2
dominic 1:9
4:18 9:8,8
170:14 171:22
216:19,22
door 31:15,16
32:13 36:19,19
40:21,22 43:13
51:23 56:7
68:15 73:4
) 91:7,8 125:21
133:1,6,6,11
151:16,19,24
152:8,12 153:9
153:11,15
181:14 187:14
195:6 198:15
198:21 199:10
211:13,21
214:1
doorman 38:17
92:20 94:18
| 156:5
doors 70:9
90:23 91:3,5
158:12 204:7
211:8 214:7
double 202:10
dowling 1:14
6:4 7:9 8:24
10:1 70:17
79:9 118:3
142:19 164:14
212:23 218:1
219:17
downed 179:3
downstairs
150:1 160:17
downtown
13:23
dozen 56:9
draft 24:15,16
24:18,21 25:13
55:15,24
drafted 24:11
25:12
drafting 102:20
draw 114:16,17
drew 167:6
Page 16
[different - drew]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
drive 4:13
driven 38:24
dropped 135:5
drugs 54:19
78:12 165:10
165:18,19
due 89:18
121:17
duly 9:18 10:2
220:8
duties 61:7
duty 16:21
190:2
e
e 6:2,12 8:12,12
8:22
earlier 50:4
75:23 82:11,14
82:15 90:23
91:13 118:7
133:4 141:24
142:20
early 30:15
41:12 46:18
47:22
east 4:5 26:2
99:24 155:10
171:2 181:20
eastbound
153:14
edge 175:19
educate 67:4
education 13:8
$1:12,20
effect 37:16
40:15 45:21
46:11 174:17
210:15 212:23
214:3
effectively 55:9
either 40:24,24
105:20 106:6
117:15 143:12
190:10 191:2
193:2
elaborate 63:2
elapsed 95:20
96:9,16 186:16
elbow 151:11
elected 116:18
electronics
20:12
elevator 40:11
40:12,14,16,23
41:22 73:21,21
120:23 144:3
153:2,5,13
154:10,17
167:17,19
168:3 184:8
elevators
128:23 129:10
130:20
emergency
41:21 47:10
99:23 100:1,20
178:21 180:6
182:15
emotional
32:22
employed
36:12,18
employee
155:24 180:23
220:18,19
employment
62:20 63:20
encounter
158:4
encountered
167:16
ends 25:15
engaged 17:24 ©
113:21
engages 20:3 _
engineer 36:24
engineers
112:18,19
ensued 35:22
entails 181:9
entered 27:17
40:16,22
entire 135:3
168:23
eri 34:6
erin 3:13 8:12
erratically 70:7
sone 26:23
especially
— -111:20
essentially
34:13 52:13,17
64:5 76:13
establish 10:13
73:16,18 115:1
establishing
115:4
estate 1:5
estimate 185:4
et 7:11
evaluates 75:15
evaluation
138:17 177:24
evening 30:2,7
30:15 32:24
33:21 35:4,14
36:17 38:4
40:2,10 41:10
41:18 42:13,23
43:5,9 45:9,17
46:7 47:21
48:3 50:5 54:7
73:13
events 11:12
31:12 95:16,17
135:3,18
136:14 171:7
214:11
eventually
28:20 59:22
211:4
everybody
99:13 167:9
183:10
Page 17
[drive - everybody]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
evidence 22:16
24:14,14 29:2¢
39:9 43:14
47:7 48:9
58:12 60:19
61:4,4 76:15
77:4,12,21
87:2,17 88:24
91:2,17,18
92:18 94:23
103:4 106:2
116:4 121:1
126:7,12
127:18 133:1
135:5,17,19
136:6,12,19,21
136:22 138:12
139:3,11
165:18 166:15
173:21 195:4
196:10 197:21
202:5 216:10
216:22 217:11
ewenger 3:18
exact 38:1
67:18 184:11
186:13 189:10
exactly 112:17
192:1
exam 10:7
examination
1:15 6:3 10:4
79:7 118:1
164:12 170:10
173:4 177:14
) 203:14 206:7
206:21 214:22
216:2 217:21
218:15 220:8
examined 10:3
examiner 54:2:
134:3,19
examiner's
20:13 30:9
example 18:18
24:19 80:2
111:11 120:20
122:4 123:18
135:4 145:3
148:12 149:8
207:19 208:17
209:4
excel 96:6
exception
197:3
exceptional
76:10
exceptionally
76:10
excessive
106:14
excited 108:7
excuse 9:9 27:6
30:10 40:24
62:16 132:18
141:12 152:3
171:19
execute 58:14
exhausted
62:14
exhausting
62:24 63:3
exhibit 6:14,15
6:16,17 25:2,6
33:14 43:21,23
70:17 85:18,23
120:7 175:1,3
175:8,10
exist 167:2
exited 40:14
153:13
exiting 167:20
expect 82:24
126:17 141:18
expectation
66:10
expected 66:22
experience 19:2
60:14 81:12
82:24 83:8
106:11 111:22
112:11 126:22
129:21 147:12
173:16 198:6
199:23 211:11
/ | expert 76:18
explain 21:10
134:20 205:3
explained 65:1
190:10
explaining
54:13
explanation
35:24
exposed 40:14
express 66:9
89:24
extensive 42:3
79:24 111:5,8
extent 26:5
extra 109:18
110:2
extraction 51:7
f
f 76:19 195:8
195:19
face 20:22,23
151:10 163:16
163:19
, facility 115:11
‘| facing 146:10
162:17 187:12
fact 60:11
80:17 87:2
111:9,9 122:12
168:13 192:19
192:21 193:18
213:23
facts 77:4
89:22
fainted 43:1
121:22 122:1
Page 18
[evidence - fainted]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
fair 10:19
30:21 37:22
42:17,18 46:17
50:2 52:5 78:1
121:13 125:8,9
134:18 135:20
141:10 145:4
145:19 146:12
149:9 154:16
159:23 187:16
190:14 193:20
208:8
fairly 76:2
fall 151:10,11
fallen 169:13
falling 169:19
188:1,18
familiar 17:12
18:8 19:3,9
97:20 110:16
family 9:6
47:14,15 51:4
59:9 61:9 64:5
65:7,7,22
66:16,20 67:9
67:10 68:1,3
71:18 79:10
87:4 106:16,23 ©
107:4 115:16
115:20 117:1
118:5 193:1]
194:15,18
201:15
family's 68:3
far 124:9
170:16 183:20
197:6 210:23
fashion 85:14
fast 52:4 70:22
71:13 186:2
fear 33:6,7
feared 42:5
february 14:3
51:14 59:2,12
105:6
feel 114:16
feet 43:17
187:18
fell 19:15 36:3
124:19 126:17
185:7,8
felony 18:5
felt 173:12
fifth 176:8
figure 16:15
figured 41:22
file 6:15,16
44:2 51:5
§2:13,18 70:19
70:23 71:20
88:20
filed 7:11
final 74:9
196:14
finally 46:3
59:24 217:5
financially 7:22
find 20:13 21:8
77:4,21 91:2,5
100:5 115:5
180:23 182:13
195:4,15 196:2
finding 76:15
findings 134:17
fine 85:3
finger 35:17
188:13
finish 95:14
209:14
finished 84:12
fire 26:22 109:8
109:14 188:13 —
firearm 19:21
31:19 33:7
74:21 113:16
114:2 137:9,9
138:12,24
firearms 13:6
fired 31:1 33:7
113:15 122:13
=: 137:10 141:8
141:15 176:11
179:17 186:18
187:3,5 201:7
firing 138:24
150:17
firm 7:19 8:10
50:22
first 10:2 13:6
17:16,18,20,22
18:4,12,15
26:19 27:16,24
28:7 61:24
62:6 63:7 67:8 —
74:2,4,5,6,14
74:19 75:5
80:3 82:5
86:11,18 89:4
89:12 95:2,23
96:9,14 104:22
105:8,10 106:6
117:18 122:17
123:23 141:3
141:12 155:21
157:24 164:21
167:16 175:24
177:18 181:11
~~ -181:13,19
182:4,9 185:5
185:10 191:23
192:20,23
199:4 201:5
208:18
fists 38:17
five 29:7 164:4
176:8 187:18
fixed 212:12
flanagan 85:3,4
flashing 180:7
fledged 13:7
floor 26:2
28:21,24 29:3
29:15 30:3,5
32:3,4,6 36:21
Page 19
[fair - floor]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
37:4,10,14
40:12,13,23
46:8 73:22
90:24,24 91:3
91:4 92:13,23
94:20 95:10,18
95:22 96:10
132:18,21
145:11 146:24
147:9 150:2,5
152:21 153:12
154:8,10
155:19 156:12
159:4,9,17
160:10 161:16
162:1,8 163:4
163:7,14,17,21
167:10,12,23
168:2,7,10,14
168:19,19
169:13 170:3
173:13,14,19
178:2 181:1,2
199:8 203:22
203:23 204:6,%
210:8
floors 30:1
154:14 155:4
foid 31:21,22
folks 112:15
follow 202:11
215:17
following 76:8
139:10
follows 10:3
footage 48:4,6
73:13,16
force 205:2,4,9
207:7 208:7,8
| 208:9 209:6,7
218:21
foregoing
220:11
forensic 48:20
135:17
forgot 175:24
form 34:23
39:4,12 54:20
69:16 76:19
81:16 83:21
84:11,16 93:9
94:4,21,22
95:11 96:22,23
97:10 98:9,18
99:8 100:23
101:11 107:23
117:4 121:19
125:5 129:12
131:7,22 135:9
135:21 143:1
143:22 144:6
145:6,7,12
146:14 147:2
147:16 148:17
149:14 152:13
153:4 156:19
157:6 159:11
159:24 161:9
162:10,14,19
163:8,22
179:22 181:3,4
182:17 184:17
185:12,18
186:9,20 187:6
187:19,22
188:20 189:6
190:16 192:4
193:4,13
194:19 195:8
195:18 196:6
197:16 198:17
199:21 200:8
201:19 202:4
203:7 204:17
207:12,20
208:11 209:10
209:11 213:8
214:8 216:12
216:24 217:13
218:23 219:3
forth 113:23
130:5
. | forward 52:4
70:22 71:10,13
187:12
forwarded
50:12
found 23:15
32:2 43:1
48:17 51:5
54:4 63:17,19
78:15 87:8
107:13 113:13
213:12
foundation
52:24 69:17
76:19 83:6
85:24 108:3,17
108:19 121:4
143:13 145:24
178:13 181:4
181:23 184:17
185:12 186:21
187:7 188:21
189:7 190:17
192:5 193:14
194:19 195:9
195:18 196:7
197:17 198:18
200:8 201:19
202:4 207:21
four 15:16
61:17,21,23
105:15 155:17
176:8
foxx 116:16,22
frame 201:5
franklin 1:22
3:4 7:15
fraternity
41:16,23 47:12
100:6,12,21
101:9
free 148:7
freidl 65:12,24
194:24
Page 20
[floor - freidl]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
frequently
112:3
friedl 50:21
friend 37:17
front 26:22
29:11 31:17,20
40:17 43:13
45:24 68:15
127:24 128:3
128:14,17
129:5,10 130:9
130:12,19
153:8 156:3
180:23 213:24
fucking 40:15
fugitive 22:1
full 13:7 60:2,5
89:8 110:10
function 16:22
further 27:12
52:20 80:14
86:21 106:17
203:14 206:5,7
206:19,21
215:16 216:2
217:21 218:15
furtherance
63:13
g
g 8:12,22
gain 214:14
gallagher 34:3
34:9,10 52:14
53:8 75:10,17
119:12,16
120:2 132:9
gap 201:8
gaps 211:21
garret 1:9
garrett 3:20
5:20 8:13 9:14
9:16 26:23
30:17 31:4,19
36:2 37:8 64:1
66:11 67:1
73:19 76:16
102:8 113:15
113:17 117:7
135:13 137:4
137:15 138:16
138:23 145:3
150:16 152:7
177:17,19,21
187:12,12
188:1,12
gathered 45:2
48:3,9 50:4
gathering 87:2
88:24
gauge 32:20
general 14:19
29:14 63:17,21
85:15 99:2,3
107:2 109:24
184:10,11
generalization
83:20,22
generalizations
84:18
generally 10:11
12:24 14:20
24:10 50:3
80:15 180:2
199:24 200:2
205:3
gentleman
91:14 100:9
getting 36:20
52:20 60:16
96:5 109:12
194:15 197:8
gibberish
107:17
gilliand 28:4
29:1
gist 99:2
give 57:18
59:14 61:9
66:20 68:3
90:2 116:1
—-117:1,10
141:20 202:9
given 89:21
103:20 219:17
220:15
giving 11:8
122:23
global 16:20
go 7:717:1
22:15 25:1
27:9 28:23
30:1,12 34:14
34:23 40:12,21
41:2 42:10,13
44:9 67:17
75:3,16 78:21
81:20 83:24
85:7 92:13
93:7,23 94:19
98:7 99:3,14
103:4 106:17
108:4 110:19
115:10 118:21
121:5 132:17
132:20 133:5
147:12,24
148:13,17
151:19 155:3
155:18 157:4
157:15 164:21
164:23 165:4
168:7,11 190:3
196:21 202:22
211:7
goal 115:9
goes 19:22 36:7
47:17
going 7:1 10:13
10:14,18 21:4
23:22 24:11
25:1 34:22
41:19 43:19,20
47:19 70:12,13
70:22 71:13
72:5 76:17
Page 21
[frequently - going]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
79:13 81:10,1:
84:19 85:13
86:21 96:20
99:4 103:21,2]
120:22 126:13
127:14 128:5
129:6 131:22
146:8 156:11
159:3,8,17
161:9,16 162:]
162:8 163:4,7
163:14 164:16
164:19,21
167:9 168:6,1¢
173:13,14,18
175:15 176:19
181:16,21
182:6,13 192:2
195:17 197:13
198:24 199:1,7
199:8 202:14
203:6 213:3
214:1 215:8,18
good 7:1 8:6,11
8:15 79:9
118:3,6 170:12
202:22
gotten 68:23
grand 55:19,2¢
56:5 57:18
102:21 103:1,2
103:3,8,10,16
103:21,24
104:6 123:4,7
123:9,11,13
grave 16:4
greeted 181:14
. | ground 10:7
29:22 126:5
135:5 151:12
207:11,18
group 128:22
147:7 157:4,15
188:7 190:8
199:13
guess 54:17
85:22 107:16
) 148:10 150:19
gun 45:20,21
48:20,23 82:11
114:3,12,16
121:18 137:3
138:16 145:23
155:18,22
156:11 157:16
179:3 209:2
; | gunshot 126:1
| 137:7,17,22
gunshots
125:24 174:15
guy 32:13 46:9
155:18
| | guys 8:19 39:1:
155:17 215:22
} h
h 6:12 8:8
122:5
hairs 196:16
half 56:9 96:11
142:1,8 164:18
hall 140:11
hallway 26:3
29:6,15,17
37:16 69:23
179:7,9 184:22
) 186:12 189:10
213:12 214:1
hamilton 37:1
37:3
hand 220:24
handle 198:15
handled 178:2(
handling
109:18
hands 97:9
156:16
happen 22:4
happened 26:6
31:18,24 34:5
37:2,13 40:10
40:18 52:21
72:23 73:18
93:16 106:21
118:13 126:4
166:5 167:23
3 178:7 191:8
192:1,15 194:9
197:11 210:1,3
210:22,22
happening
93:23 168:2
169:17
happens 30:19
happy 128:8
harassing
200:18
harmed 165:8
harms 162:9
harrington 5:3
head 35:18
38:2 40:23
91:19 92:5.6,9
141:19 188:14
196:22
headphones
) 173:10
heads 59:14
health 62:8,10
107:21 108:13
109:4,19
112:10 115:11
189:14,19
hear 8:20 31:14
44:7 72:7
128:18 173:9
173:11 211:13
heard 16:3
25:19,20 45:18
45:22 46:1,9
70:3 98:13,23
107:15 120:21
122:12,18
153:9 174:14
176:11 195:23
210:15,16
Page 22
[going - heard]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
211:2,6
hearing 8:18,19
71:17 72:1
122:13 125:24
126:1 176:9,13
held 172:16
help 23:5,11
73:16 92:20
165:8 182:14
helped 106:24
helps 37:7
hereto 220:21
hereunto
220:23
hey 98:16
hi 38:16,18
173:6
high 108:7
higher 214:15
highest 75:3
117:14
highlighted
175:18
hinshaw 3:2
8:10
hinshawlaw.c...
3:7
hit 94:18 95:3
130:4 185:24
186:1,17 198:7
hitting 45:19
174:14,16,17
188:19 210:15
210:16
holding 19:14
19:16
hole 29:6
home 31:13
62:22
homicide 13:10
14:18 15:8,11
15:14,17 16:12
16:20,22 17:21
19:19,20 20:9
20:17,22 21:4
21:21 22:7,8
23:21 24:1,5,8
24:9 30:20
35:10,20 46:16
53:14 61:1,8
74:13 80:4
$2:7,19,21
83:14 84:8
86:11,18 88:4
89:15 123:6
171:14,17
172:9,12,18
173:1
homicides 15:2
21:6 142:12
honed 111:1
honest 11:8
hopefully 23:24
hospital 30:10
47:4 127:14
198:5
hour 96:12
109:24 110:2
142:1,9 189:17
199:19 200:15
hours 30:9,11
41:12 47:23
69:12 110:10
110:13 164:18
189:22 215:22
human 74:17
74:18
hunting 196:4
hurry 215:23
husband 18:20
hypothetical
94:7 148:19
157:21 179:11
209:10,12
hypothetically
18:21 19:21
82:9 157:13
i
idea 112:24
133:23 166:5
168:22 169:5
206:17
identification
25:7 43:24
44:6 70:18
85:19
identify 9:4
16:23
illegal 168:17
illinois 1:1,17
1:22,23 2:6,15
3:5,16 4:6,14
5:6,16 7:12,16
17:12,13,15
80:10 137:11
138:5,19 139:6
139:13 140:14
172:15 207:10
208:2 220:1,6
221:1
immediately
18:23 135:6
159:23
impair 11:11
impaired 78:5
impairment
134:17
impaneled
103:1,17,19
impediment
33:10 75:5
importance
~~ 102:11
important
101:24 136:18
183:3
impossible
200:12,17
impression
33:9
improper 195:8
195:19 196:6
inappropriate
83:20,23
Page 23
[heard - inappropriate]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
incident 13:23
109:10,22
113:14 142:8
172:3 181:12
203:5
include 42:19
included 46:22
49:14 122:11
197:7
including 8:2
48:12 61:23
87:3 155:18
177:2
incoherent
107:16
incomplete
94:7 148:19
157:21 179:10
209:11
inconsistencies
142:21
inconsistent
94:23 135:7
incorrect
127:13
independent
1:4
indicate 32:5
38:19 52:1
58:6 62:7 63:2
68:22 69:2,6
93:13 102:3,5
129:20 176:7
indicated 31:8
36:6 80:16
101:8 105:14
122:10 134:17
197:14
indicates 60:1
62:12
indicating 74:5
177:2
indication
53:12 66:21
91:6
indirectly
220:21
individual
13:11 15:21
17:21 18:14,22
19:13,14,16
22:2,9 23:20
24:5,6 26:9
31:15 32:2
41:10 43:8
72:10 81:2
82:15,16,17
83:19 87:9
88:3,4 93:22
96:20 106:3
110:3,21
114:21,24
115:1,6 116:18
160:14 172:19
182:21 197:16
individually
189:21
individuals
27:21 30:4
42:15 51:23
52:2 55:6 83:9
84:5 93:7
96:19 97:3,8
97:17 109:11
109:13,19
112:13 129:5
149:3 156:12
203:21 208:20
influence 11:5
inform 64:2
information
41:6,24 47:11
47:13 50:4
52:16 57:23
63:12 67:13
80:14,14 87:8
87:16 105:7
106:23 107:3,6
122:18 123:17
135:17 146:22
153:16 158:10
158:11,16
159:6,15
166:14 183:15
184:3 193:12
193:19,22,24
| 194:1,2,3,15,18
195:15 196:2
197:10
informed 13:1!
32:15 33:2
59:4 65:2
68:14
initial 17:8
52:21 61:12,21
69:3 74:24
78:4 81:4
113:10,10
155:13 178:5
179:5 191:9
194:22
initially 22:21
42:24 55:12
72:17 74:15
87:9 88:5
121:17 123:18
141:14 178:10
initiate 205:24
initiative 58:2]
injure 152:20
injured 38:3
129:17 130:18
180:18,24
188:7
injuries 35:14
35:16,23 36:4
43:5 126:11
130:11,24
131:5,13,14
198:3
3 | injuring 196:5
injury 192:12
192:14
inquire 181:21
182:5
Page 24
[incident - inquire]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
inquired 182:6
inquires 184:18
inquiries
141:17
inside 27:7
inspection
165:10
inspector 24:16
instagram
105:21
instance 83:19
instantly 198:7
instructed
97:17
intend 17:23
intensity
190:10
intentional
17:20
interact 61:8
interaction
154:24 168:23
168:24 177:21
intercede 158:3
interested 7:22
220:21
interplay 22:5
interpret
134:12
interrupt 84:14
intersection
29:6
intervention
108:8
interview 20:10.
21:5 27:11
28:3 30:17
31:4,5,8 34:6
40:1,4 41:9
43:8 45:9 53:9
53:11 56:15
58:18 72:14
91:22 103:7
104:5,8 135:1
139:3 155:13
155:16 172:2
175:22 176:4
183:6 197:7
interviewed
35:14 36:6
38:4,22 40:6
42:16 49:1
53:9 56:21
91:21 92:10
123:2 127:6,12
134:23 ,23
139:18 183:10
183:14,18
184:2,4 197:2
212:7
interviewing
23:23 88:24
119:12 123:20
interviews 21:1
21:5 27:24
32:11 34:16,17
46:22 49:9,24
50:3 55:6
75:11 116:3
118:13,17,18
119:3 120:8
123:17 145:2
153:10
introduced
27:6,7,13
28:13
inventoried
61:5 137:24
investigate
15:21 17:2
18:14 20:2
24:1,3 37:1
42:11 81:6
93:23 98:7
115:23 171:10
171:13,16
193:8
investigated
14:24 77:16
116:8 142:13
165:22 172:5,8
172:11 205:14
205:21
investigating
86:18 87:10
116:22
investigation
16:12 20:9
21:4 22:8
23:19 30:20
35:11 39:1,10
41:13 45:3,16
46:16,20 48:2
61:2 63:14
69:10 71:15
| 72:3,9 73:17
75:19,22 76:2
78:2 80:17,22
82:1 86:2,22
86:23 88:6,16
89:4 90:15,22
96:4 98:17
101:24 102:12
102:15,17,18
104:22 105:9
106:1,24 107:7
113:4,22
117:17 119:7
119:15 124:14
125:7 129:4
132:8,23,24
136:3,10,24
146:10 147:1
147:21 150:4
151:15 152:21
153:17 158:11 —
158:17 159:16
165:15 166:9
170:17 171:21
172:24 178:5
180:4 182:24
183:4,9,16,18
184:5 189:2,3
191:18,19,24
195:3,15 196:3
197:1,7 201:8
Page 25
[inquired - investigation]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
203:23 205:24
206:1 209:23
210:20 211:1
212:1 213:19
investigations
14:18 16:20
20:17,18,19,20
83:9 94:13
106:17 165:20
investigative
46:19 60:24
investigator
13:10 15:14,18
20:2,22 82:21
136:11,16
investigators
16:14 20:15
invited 193:18
invoking
218:20
involuntary
19:8,11,12,17
80:5 82:7,13
83:10 89:16
171:10 172:6
172:17,24
involved 24:9
63:23 66:6
67:19 90:4
100:22 108:14
130:10 172:22
involvement
100:16
involving 67:4
77:22
issue 23:18
57:4 99:5
issued 59:15
104:12 105:1
) 133:21
issues 38:6 62:8
62:10 189:14
189:19 215:6
j
Tj) 1:42:18 7:10
| 105:13 106:5
106:22 115:15
james 56:10
january 58:14
105:1,6
jared 99:20
jareth 41:10
47:14 53:4
56:21 99:19,20
99:20,21,22
100:17,20
101:7 104:8
139:19
jason 50:21
65:12,24
194:24
jay 2:13 9:5
47:17 62:6
64:2 65:15
67:15,19 79:10
101:7 107:9
194:22
jen 68:2 89:23
jennifer 57:13
196:13
jenny 52:9,16
jewelry 29:9,22
43:13 48:15,16
3} 213:12,16,19
jim 46:3
job 1:24 181:9
johah 3:10 36:7
john 1:11 5:10
212:10
join 54:10,21
76:20,21 77:10
78:9 93:10,11
94:3,5,24 95:5
96:24 97:1,11
98:10,11,19,20
98:21 99:10,11
99:12 108:2,20
108:21,22
112:22 121:2
126:13,23,24
130:1,14,15,22
131:10 132:1
135:10,22
142:5,6 143:2
143:3,4,6,23
144:7 145:13
145:14 146:3
146:17 147:3
147:18,19
148:4,5,21,22
148:23,24
149:17 150:11
150:13 151:7
154:21 156:20
156:21,22,23
| 156:24 157:9
157:10,20
159:1 160:1,21
161:11,19,20
162:3,11
163:11 166:22
179:24 180:12
181:6 182:18
184:19 185:19
186:10,22
187:8,22 189:7
190:18 191:13
192:6,17
194:20 195:10
196:8 197:18
198:11 200:9
201:22 202:6
203:8 204:3,14
207:13,23
208:12 209:13
211:15,16
- 213:7,8,9
214:23,24
215:11,12,13
jonah 36:7
77:13
joseph 1:5,10
15:22 25:3
32:16 36:2
Page 26
[investigation - joseph]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
37:15,18,20
38:14 39:10
41:18 42:3,6,9
45:1 47:11
51:5 54:2.6
62:8,13 63:4,9
63:18 64:19
70:2 71:18
78:2,5 91:7,18
99:18 100:1,18
101:10 102:1,4
102:9 107:3,17
107:21 111:24
113:9 117:7
118:4 120:21
123:23 124:5
124:15,18,24
126:16 127:11
135:5 137:18
138:10 139:24
146:23 147:8
147:10 150:5
151:1 153:8,15
153:18,22
154:1,4 155:4
158:12 166:10
167:11,16,20
168:23 169:20
171:4 173:1
174:3,7 177:2
180:17 184:9
185:10 187:4
187:11 188:1,6
188:18,19
189:4,5,14
190:10 194:4
195:5,17 196:5
201:6,16
joseph's 41:16
48:18 59:9
62:20 68:8,15
69:12 71:8
78:12 102:13
124:10 139:9
164:23 165:24
190:11 191:2
193:11 194:6
216:11,23
217:12 218:11
jpderatany
2:17
jr 1:11
judge 85:2,3,4
106:10
judgment
107:20
july 12:23 13:4
33:16 88:9
102:21,23
115:17 175:2,6
175:7
jump 42:6
164:16 180:14
217:18
juries 103:21
jury 55:19,24
56:5 57:18
102:21 103:1,3
103:3,10,16,24
104:6 123:5,7
123:9,11,14
jury's 103:8
justice 66:12,13
105:21 107:10
k
k 165:5
kacey 53:4
100:9,21
183:18
kacey's 100:11
kasey 42:14
197:3
kept 86:14
124:18
kill, 17:23 54:24
70:3 82:11
134:20
killed 19:15
20:3 74:17
124:6 183:3
killing 84:8
106:7,12
kim 116:15
kin 41:20
kind 24:8,17
42:9 59:17
67:2 77:22
106:19
kinds 14:23
63:16
king 3:146:11
8:18,21 9:14
9:14 81:16
83:18 84:11,14
84:22,23 87:13
94:3,22 95:23
96:2 99:8
107:24 108:19
112:2 121:2
143:4 147:19
148:24 157:10
164:4 177:12
177:15,16
178:14,17
179:14 180:5
180:13 181:7
181:10 182:3
182:22 184:23
185:15,22
186:14 187:1
188:2,16 189:1
189:12 190:6
190:19,22
191:16 192:9
192:22 193:9
193:17 195:2
195:13 196:1
196:11 197:23
198:14,22
199:22 200:5
200:14 201:1
201:14 202:1,9
202:22 203:1
203:13 213:9
Page 27
[joseph - king]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
214:9 215:13
215:17 218:16
219:1,7,13
kit 137:3,17
knees 35:18
188:14
knew 30:23
34:21 35:2
62:11 116:7,10
124:9 127:14
131:13 156:10
183:11,11
192:1 203:24
204:2,2,13
213:2
knives 208:23
know 10:13
12:1 28:23
30:19 32:10,11
37:8 38:1
42:22,22 53:1
57:18 59:17
63:19 66:6,14
68:5,17 73:4
91:15 93:15
94:10,10
100:11 101:2,2
102:8 104:14
1411:11,14
112:2,16,17,1&
116:21 120:19
121:16 127:10
133:20 141:18
143:8,14
144:21 155:8,9
156:9,14 166:7
166:17 167:2
169:23 173:17
174:24 179:20
181:9,19 182:7
182:8 183:21
186:6,13
| 188:24 190:5
195:21 197:6
203:23 204:10
206:16 207:22
208:2,2 210:23
217:9
knowing
145:22
knowledge
18:1 26:5 35:8
82:23 83:1
143:9,17 161:8
165:2,9 166:8
167:22 170:1
183:21 184:14
206:12
known 62:10
183:7
. | knows 81:19
99:13
kolman_ 165:5
; | kosner 2:12
]
1 7:13,14 8:22
165:5
lab 137:12
138:6,18,20
139:7,14
140:15
lack 52:24
108:3,17,19
121:4 143:13
lag 133:20
lamparis 165:6
language
120:22
languages
63:18
lasalle 2:14 5:5
5:15
lasted 135:1
168:24
law 1:2 7:13
13:6 50:22
79:18 82:24
89:20 207:17
208:2
lawinjury.com
2:17
laws 13:12
lawyers 10:14
63:23
lay 82:24 83:6
84:4 85:23
94:15
laypersons
112:13
lead 13:10
15:17 87:8
205:24
leading 31:12
69:12 136:14
learn 31:11
54:1 63:11
65:19 72:21
73:6 92:19
101:5 113:5
learned 31:13
54:2,18 65:21
73:1 92:20
96:5 132:24
135:16 146:24
151:14 153:16
left 29:5 40:21
41:2 64:1
73:20 153:2
167:12
legacy 1:8 8:9
30:7 36:8,12
211:8 214:18
215:2
legal 7:18,20
11:6 21:8
23:18 24:2
33:10 34:19
147:17 148:18
156:15,18
218:19 219:19
level 81:20
203:10 214:5
levels 80:1
134:16
Page 28
[king - levels]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
liable 172:16
lieutenant
165:6 180:15
life 33:7
lights 180:7
likely 65:20
limit 79:13
limitation
87:24
limitations
80:10 87:21
limited 79:13
limping 129:18
line 29:8 65:16
108:15 176:8
184:21 185:2,5
185:6 215:9
listed 41:20
99:18,22 100:3
listened 44:21
71:5
listening 97:20
98:34
listing 83:18
100:20
lit 29:16
literally 202:12
little 15:3 24:7 —
29:12 33:18,19
36:6 42:3
164:16 175:19
180:15
lived 45:13
168:19 199:3
He 2:3 3:12
Ip 3:2
lobby 26:16
27:7,15,19
28:1,7 30:4
31:17 40:17
73:12,19,20
95:10 127:19
128:12,14
144:3,14 146:7
146:19 162:7
163:14,17,20
171:1 178:2
locate 51:10
56:8
located 22:13
43:13 51:4
147:10 181:22
182:7 189:9
199:9
location 7:14
98:6 212:12
lock 40:22
locked 133:6,11
151:19,24
152:9,12
199:11
long 12:21 13:5
15:13 30:6
60:15 168:22
= - 168:23 169:6
200:22,22
look 33:13 67:3
85:21 131:3
looked 16:4
92:7 211:5
looking 20:3
23:22 39:18,19
126:7,8 136:3
looks 51:14
58:24 59:24
65:6
lose 126:2
lost 43:2
125:22
lot 10:11 62:4
167:8
lower 214:12
m
m 3:21 5:20
165:5
made 16:11
26:15 41:2
$2:22 59:17
70:2 76:4
90:12 105:24
107:17 162:21
191:17 193:2
196:14,22
197:22 203:11
210:13 212:3
213:22
main 4:5
major 60:24
61:5
make 11:2
16:24 17:6,8
22:18,22 28:20
52:16 57:23
58:7 69:15
74:9 80:21
81:3 85:1
136:19 144:22
165:7 168:5,17
191:15,22
197:14 202:15
makes 80:23
making 39:14
98:6 178:4
| 191:9
male 40:13
management
1:7 28:16,18
72:12 178:22
manager 72:11
manner 110:16
manpower
200:3
manslaughter
19:8,11,12,17
20:4 80:5 82:8
82:13 83:11,14
89:16 171:11
172:6,17 173:1
march 60:3
67:8 76:5 89:7
89:8 90:10,16
mark 1:9 43:20
175:2,3
marked 25:2,6
26:21 43:23
Page 29
[liable - marked]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
44:2,7 70:13
70:17 85:18,22
175:10
marketing
202:2
marks 79:1
164:5,9
married 32:12
37:6
mars 180:7
match 54:18
material
138:15
matter 7:10
8:17 43:15
59:5 120:17
matters 8:14
97:8,13 156:16
220:10
maura 2:48:15
118:4
mecarty 52:9
52:16 57:14
59:2,4 60:3
68:2 89:23
196:14
mean 33:5 58:6
60:14,18 61:4
75:21 76:11
84:14 102:1
148:7 157:2,24
160:3 176:21
176:22 196:16
means 33:6
76:12 112:3
215:5
meat 45:19
meaty 122:12
176:10 210:15
210:16,19
media 7:8 79:1
164:5,10
219:18
medical 20:12
30:9 38:20
43:4 50:10
54:23 69:16
78:7 107:22,24
115:11 131:16
131:19 132:4
| 132:12,14
134:3,19
165:13 180:18
181:1 182:15
197:9 198:9
medically
108:9
medication
11:6 165:10
) | meet 55:10
57:13
meeting 52:6
52:12 57:16,21
; 64:18,22 65:11
65:14 68:13
88:20 104:17
104:19 191:
meetings
104:12
mem 120:6
member 47:14
47:15 73:4
206:11
members 9:6
27:21 64:5
79:11 87:4
106:17,23
115:16 117:1
194:18
memorialize
120:3
meng 43:8,11
43:12 46:24
48:7 51:21
56:1 57:1,17
104:13,19
meng's 29:11
153:15
mental 11:11
62:8,10 96:21
107:21 108:13
109:4,19 112:9
114:13 115:2
115:11 189:14
189:18
mentally 62:13
mention 100:1¢
mentioned
29:19 60:7
64:7 65:15
68:6 75:23
140:17 142:19
168:16 180:14
180:15 206:23
209:24
meredith 45:10
46:24 141:7
176:2
met 56:11 57:9
64:8 65:23
67:24 68:5,7
132:9
method 16:11
michael 3:14
4:4,12 9:7,12
170:12 173:6
michigan
139:21
microphones
7:3
mike 9:14
177:16 217:19
217:23
millennium 1:8
3:9
mind 46:10
78:22 197:16
minute 142:17
minutes 28:8
70:22 96:13,16
) 141:11,13
164:4 186:3
206:24 208:6
216:1
Page 30
[marked - minutes]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
mischaracteri...
120:24 150:12
161:7 191:11
201:20 212:15
mischaracteri...
212:19
misdemeanor
20:20
missed 100:10
198:2 199:4
misstated
174:19
misstates
125:13 126:12
142:3 143:5
149:15 150:8
151:5 152:16
158:24 188:9
202:5
mistake 194:10
196:23
mistaken 60:2
mking 3:19
molecules
137:8,21
moment 73:24
monroe 3:15
26:2 99:24
171:2 181:20
month 55:4
64:12
months 13:5
51:18
morgue 30:10
139:10
morning 7:1
8:6,11,15
30:16 34:8
46:18 47:22
moved 14:17
63:20 184:9
204:8
movements
110:22
moving 130:3
147:22
multiple 63:18
78:5 81:18
136:22 137:23
197:14
murder 17:5,13
17:16,19,20,23
18:5,9,12,12,13
18:15,16,19,24
19:4 21:23
22:20,24 23:1
23:9,13 33:11
53:18 67:8
74:5,6,14,19,23
75:6,12 76:2
77:17 80:1,3,4
80:10,16,18,19
81:15 82:1,5,6
82:16,20,21
83:10,10,14
84:8 86:12,19
87:10,21,24
89:4,12 90:7,7
90:16 102:1,2
102:15 104:23
105:10 106:1,7
107:1 113:4
115:24 116:8
117:11,13,18
murdered 17:3
117:2
murders 14:20
18:23 19:23
muscle 45:19
174:15,16,18
mute 7:5
mweiss 4:16
mwhite 2:8
n
n 6:2 8:8,8,8,12
8:22 165:5
name 7:17 8:6
23:14 28:17
37:8 39:16
43:8 46:4
65:10 79:10
99:17,18 100:9
100:10,11
118:4 164:14
173:6 175:24
named 15:22
41:10
names 32:11,11
natalie 1:11
5:10 119:23
nature 38:14
near 135:14
153:11
nearby 213:4
necessarily
10:8 42:17
59:13 180:11
necessary
115:10 205:6
207:4
need 10:21 11:1
84:18 107:21
114:16 138:23
needed 41:23
60:8 165:8,13
180:17 181:1
182:14
needing 133:5
mega 4:46:10
9:12,12 97:1
98:11,21 99:11
108:20 121:19
130:15 146:3
146:17 148:22
150:13 151:7
156:24 157:8
157:20 161:19
173:5,6 175:7
175:9,11 177:7
177:10 210:10
219:8,10
negligent 80:4
82:7,9 89:15
171:16 172:12
Page 31
[mischaracterizes - negligent]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
nena 1:103:10
8:9 27:20
28:11 32:13
36:7,7,11,14,11
37:5,12,20,22
38:9,13,19
39:2,10 41:7
46:23 49:15
72:14 73:4,10
73:20 77:14,23
91:15,18 92:2
92:21 95:2
119:19 125:10
127:24 129:16
131:19 132:3
132:11 141:3
141:12,14
142:22 145:3
149:24 150:24
151:9 152:11
153:21 156:10
159:17 160:23
162:8,17 163:2
169:18 174:8
180:22 182:6
182:12 184:7
185:7,10,24
195:17 196:4
197:24 198:2,¢
201:6 204:19
205:12,20
206:1
nena's 36:15
39:21 92:5
155:13 210:3
nerd 140:2,4
never 67:20
5 77:12,16 117:6
117:8 145:16
151:18,22
152:7,11
166:13,14
172:5,8,11,24
) 194:8 195:22
205:20
new 57:20
80:14 87:16,16
122:12 175:4,5
nickname
140:4
night 36:8
42:16 118:9,13
119:3 121:9
131:17,20
135:3,8 137:4
138:13,16
139:19 140:7
213:12
normal 106:12
106:15 191:24
north 1:22 2:5
2:14 3:4 4:13
q 5:5,15 7:15
45:14
nos 7:13
notch 111:16
note 7:3 43:20
77:8 177:5
noted 120:9
122:3
notes 120:8,11
121:10 169:24
noticed 29:10
78:20 139:23
noticing 8:5
notification
41:20
notified 67:11
67:18 95:2
notify 16:16
| 22:9,10 23:15
40:17 81:1
nowadays 15:3
number 6:13
21:7 46:19
68:4 219:18
numerous
26:21 36:20
47:2 118:12
0
0 122:5 165:5
o'connor 9:7
object 34:22
76:17 83:21
84:16 128:5
131:22 145:24
161:9 197:13
203:6
objection 12:1]
39:4,12,14
52:24 54:8,20
58:1 69:15,16
77:8,9 78:7
81:16,16 83:2
83:3,17,18,23
84:10,11 87:12
87:13 90:17
91:9 92:14
93:9 94:1,2,21
94:22 95:11
96:22,23 97:10
98:9,18 99:7
100:23,24
101:11 107:23
107:24 108:16
108:18 112:1,2
112:20 117:4
120:24 121:3
121:19 125:5
125:12,13,15
126:12,14,20
129:12,23,24
130:13,21
131:6,7,8,10
135:9,10,21,22
142:3 143:1,13
143:15,22
144:6 145:6,7
145:12 146:1,2
146:13,14,15
147:2,15,16
148:2,3,4,15,1¢
| 149:13,15
150:7,8 151:3
151:4,5 152:13
Page 32
[nena - objection]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
153:4 154:19
154:20 155:6
156:17,18
157:6,7,8,18
158:24 159:10
159:11,24
160:20 161:7
161:17,18
162:2,10,12,19
163:8,22,23
166:19,20
169:9 170:6
177:5 178:13
179:10,22
180:9 181:3,4
181:23 182:16
184:16,17
185:12,18
186:9,20 187:6
187:19,20
188:9,20 189:6
190:3,16
191:11 192:4
192:16 193:4
193:13 194:19
195:7,18 196:6
197:12 198:9
198:17 199:20
200:7,9,17,19
201:19 202:4
204:1,12
207:12,20,21
208:11 209:9
209:11 211:14
212:15,19
213:6,8 214:8
214:9,21 215:9
216:12,24
217:13 218:23
219:3
objections 7:23
85:2 167:7
obligated
218:21
observe 41:1,4
129:9 130:10
130:24 144:4
observed 26:21
29:12,20 37:15
70:6 130:5,19
144:2 150:5
162:23 198:20
210:21
obtain 50:9,16
73:12
obtained 47:10
66:3 71:7
obviously
20:14,21
107:16 134:1
134:23 136:3
143:11
occasion 22:23
30:12,16 31:4
— 41:9 42:21
43:7 45:9
50:16 56:14
61:11 64:7
170:18
occasionally
109:15 115:20
occur 99:4
136:17
occurred 16:16
16:17 29:2
45:14 51:19
63:24 93:14,15
144:4 183:12
occurring
93:21 98:2,8
99:5
occurs 18:6
110:17
october 133:19
oeme 214:5
offender 22:13 ©
offenders 16:23
offense 86:10
205:15,21
offensive
110:22
offer 12:12
offered 166:13
office 12:19
14:11 17:9,10
20:13 22:6,17
22:19 31:14
33:3,23 34:1,7
34:15 35:6
38:23 45:6
49:5,7 50:13
51:15 52:6
53:17 55:5,11
56:12,16 57:2
57:10 59:1
60:17 65:2
67:24 71:11
77:13 81:2
103:11 116:19
116:23 119:7
122:6 123:1,3
133:16 143:12
143:18,20
156:9 178:21
201:17 212:4
220:24
officer 12:12
13:2,7,16
15:12 16:14
68:15 85:13
109:1 114:15
132:18 136:15
180:16 182:2
205:8 207:9
211:12 212:11
officers 24:1]
24:12 26:24
28:5 84:6
109:13,15,17
110:3,4 111:19
118:18 155:17
165:3 178:6
181:12,20
182:5,10
183:10 189:20
189:22
Page 33
[objection - officers]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
offices 72:15
official 88:15
oh 24:4 37:17
64:13 66:18
88:14 100:12
102:19 144:21
160:11 218:6
okay 12:3,9
16:19 19:1
21:7,18,21
23:5,17 24:22
25:1,13 26:15
26:18,18 27:15
28:6,12,14,17
28:20 30:1,6
31:24 32:14
33:17,24 34:18
41:14 45:8
47:4,24 55:4
58:24 59:10,24
62:6,20 64:7
64:21 65:23
66:20 67:6,23
68:6,22 71:13
71:19 72:9,21
73:6,12 75:24
76:14 80:21
82:13 83:24
86:5,9 87:18
88:2,14 90:4
91:22 92:2,18
94:17 95:6
96:2 97:6,16
98:1 100:12
101:5,15
102:14 103:23
104:7 105:19
106:22 110:2
116:5 117:10
118:12 120:11
120:14 123:6
123:10,16
127:17 142:10
142:17 165:2
165:24 166:8
167:3 169:2,15
| 169:20 170:8
170:23 171:7,9
172:23 174:24
175:9,15 176:7
! 176:19,24
178:18 179:19
183:9 193:10
206:6,18
207:10,17
208:5 217:20
218:10,14
old 19:14
omissions
172:18
once 22:21
40:12 62:3
103:21 194:23
ongoing 104:21
online 13:8
open 87:17
operator's 98::
opinion 39:22
76:14 89:24
90:2,5 108:1
113:24 117:2,6
117:11,16
176:24 184:13
189:3 195:8
opportunity
27:5 119:1,5
140:18 211:7,8
opposite 22:24
order 53:22
55:16 215:19
ordered 35:6
ordinary 86:15
original 203:16
originally
14:17 41:19
121:21 151:14
outcome 7:23
220:22
outcomes
108:24
outliers 60:6
outside 22:13
24:17 46:2
103:8,13,14
123:4 213:24
outstanding
| 104:17,20
oversight 14:11]
own 24:15
58:21 97:8
145:17 156:16
owned 168:13
o’connor 4:11
p
p.m. 79:2,5
141:2,6 164:6
164:10 202:18
202:21 219:16
pacing 130:4
page 6:13
86:11 175:16
175:20
panic 26:16
73:5 94:18
95:3 130:4
215:3
paragraph
175:20
paraphrasing
210:17
park 1:8 3:9
parked 212:9
213:3
part 20:15,20
24:1 36:19
41:4,12 45:3
48:2 61:7
65:13 71:15
72:2,9 101:24
101:24 107:5,6
112:8 114:20
11524 142:15
165:14 166:9
181:5 183:6,9
Page 34
[offices - part]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
191:24199:5
210:16
participation
197:6
particular 63:3
90:6 136:13
parties 7:7
220:20
party 7:21
passed 32:16
121:17
passion 18:23
past 11:12
52:20 106:21
164:17 212:8
path 190:11
patrolman
13:19
paul 2:13 79:10
pedaled 150:17
pedalling
187:13
peephole 211:5
pending 101:21
people 20:22
46:23 83:1
84:5 94:15
105:16 114:4,5
167:12 169:4
198:7
people's 214:2
214:7
perform 180:3
performed
47:24 48:20
49:9 51:8
137:18
performs 24:20
period 115:21
135:1 169:7
176:11
permit 45:22
114:3
person 13:9
23:9,12,14
28:18 34:17
45:20 62:2
64:8 68:5 98:5
100:10 114:9
114:13 124:10
126:9 165:16
165:17 176:1
179:2 185:5,6
185:10 196:19
204:7
person's
165:19
personal 12:11
220:13
personally
107:14
personnel
26:22 47:2
132:20 156:3
pertain 79:15
pertaining 1:17
62:19
pertains 172:21
pharmacology
— -134:10
‘phone 20:21
36:20 42:4
43:16 50:17,20
50:24 51:4,8
51:11 53:4
58:15 60:7
61:12,19 62:3
62:4 63:6,7,11
63:22 65:15,2]
66:3,7 67:15
68:4 70:15
71:8 105:3
107:4,15,18
115:19 194:24
202:15
phones 7:5
photo 24:20
photographed
47:8
physical 11:11
16:24 35:21
37:23 38:5
41:24 48:9
91:18 124:23
125:11 129:22
130:10 131:4
135:19 136:6
136:12,18
162:18 184:6
physically
22:11 34:9
38:8 158:22
pick 7:4 164:19
picture 16:21
20:8
pieces 136:22
pills 166:10,14
166:18 167:2
place 7:6 22:2
27:16 31:5
40:4 56:18
99:6 144:5
146:11 147:12
147:13 148:13
148:13 157:15
—— -168:7,11
—— 214:20 220:17
placed 76:9
139:3,11
placing 144:13
plaintiff 1:6 2:9
plaintiffs 8:16
plan 27:11
platform
105:21
play 23:18
43:19 70:12,13
played 44:16
70:20,24 71:21
107:18
playing 19:21
82:11
pleading 188:7
please 7:3,5,24
9:2 127:23
Page 35
[part - please]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
172:14 215:22
plural 104:14
point 32:15
34:18 45:6
50:7 52:23
87:3 90:13
93:3 102:6
108:11 115:18
119:15 125:3
125:23 126:2,¢
127:8 128:6,1€
129:1 131:12
132:7,11
149:20 154:23
160:7,8 164:22
166:11 168:5,¢
194:22
points 150:15
pole 179:4
police 12:15,22
13:2,5,16 14:6
15:12 20:8
22:6 24:8 35:9
42:16,23 43:7
45:8,17 46:7
47:2 48:3 64:9
68:14,23 69:3
69:7 73:7 74:4
84:6 85:12
92:23 93:1,2,6
93:8,24 94:12
97:8,13 98:16
109:1,5,13,15
109:17 110:3,3
111:1,10,12,16
112:15 114:15
136:15,23
137:12 138:6
138:20 139:7
139:14 140:15
155:21 157:16
160:3,6,7,12,11
160:24 161:3,€
) 161:15,24
178:6 179:1,7
179:21 181:11
181:11 183:10
191:7 199:14
199:19 207:9
) 211:12 212:9
213:3
policy 93:5
population
| 85:15
portion 211:4,5
position 13:3
149:3
positions 21:8
posse 157:4
possession
50:19
possibility 35:2
80:20 85:10
206:14,15
possible 21:24
75:3 117:14
167:11 199:18
211:12 213:2
) | possibly 81:7
136:17 169:4,4
post 212:12
posts 105:20,27
potential 24:2
75:5 81:15
93:7,20 94:13
3 | 98:7 103:10
) 135:24 142:20
147:13 205:14
216:6,18 217:7
217:7
potentially
19:7 24:18
30:16 63:3
85:10,16 99:4
193:7 214:16
pounded 51:24
91:7
pounding
) 31:14 70:9
158:12
powerful 70:4
practice 98:16
108:15
preliminary
16:13,23 20:15
27:23 180:3
premises
183:22
prepare 216:4
217:6
prepared 86:1
88:11,14
121:10
- | prescription
11:6 62:9
166:2,6
present 5:20
8:2 9:17 11:1
22:16 34:15
49:23 74:8
75:15 87:7,17
92:23 93:21
136:20 137:8
216:5,17 218:8
presentation
60:2,5 74:24
89:8
presented
34:10 60:1
77:12 111:24
156:13 197:20
203:11
presenting
34:11,13
pressure 38:7
53:13,15,17
201:16 211:21
presumably
137:21
pretty 79:24
111:5,16 130:3
177:20
prevent 11:7
previous 218:6
220:7
Page 36
[please - previous]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
previously
56:10
primary 15:20
prior 26:6,10
38:15 73:7
118:16 119:2
119:11 123:19
123:22 128:12
129:6 139:2
142:3,21 146:8
156:11 159:3,5
159:8,16
161:16 162:7
163:4,6,13,23
170:15 173:13
173:19 174:3
174:15 177:3
206:12
prioritized
178:22
priority 178:19
179:18,20
214:13,13
private 7:4
proactively
16:5,8
probability
18:1
problem
215:24
procedural
20:16 21:8
procedure 1:16
93:6 109:3,7
proceed 9:3
69:18 74:14
80:19 90:6
107:1
proceeded
25:23
proceeding
7:24
proceedings
220:15
process 20:10
34:1 47:5
processed 61:3
professional
74:12 76:14
109:4
professionals
108:14
professions
112:16
progress 81:22
86:3 193:24
203:18
progresses
60:20 64:24
progressing
81:3
progressive
79:23
promoted
13:24
proper 18:15
31:21 81:13
115:11
property 1:7
72:11,12 159:8
207:18
proportional
208:9,17
prosecutable
193:3
prosecute
76:11 196:15
197:5 201:17
203:4
prosecuted
196:23
protect 68:18
protests 13:21
protocol 97:23
protocols 72:22
72:24
prove 89:21
provide 43:14
45:5 106:23
115:5 119:5
121:13 122:18
132:12,14
193:11,18
provided 36:1
120:16 123:18
132:4 133:15
135:8 140:22
143:8 170:16
193:21
providing
107:6
provisions 1:15
proximity
137:9
public 99:3
206:11
puddle 29:5
pull 128:8
141:20,21
142:18
pulled 33:7
74:20
punch [22:12
174:17 176:10
176:22 210:19
210:24 211:13
punched 38:2
43:2 91:14,19
174:3 177:3
205:9
punish 195:5
purpose 1:18
34:11 196:5
pursuant 1:15
pursue 78:16
117:19
pursued 17:6
66:17,19 90:9
pursuing 33:11
purview 20:2
103:13
pushed 73:5
put 21:22,22
75:17,18 98:15
102:10 113:3
Page 37
[previously - put]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
149:3 201:16
201:16
q
qualified 76:19
question 10:16
10:18,19 31:1
34:23 39:5
54:17 81:18
83:6,21 84:15
84:16 91:16
93:17 94:23
95:14 97:14,18
97:19 99:8,14
102:10 104:16
117:7,8 118:22
138:14 140:6
148:10 150:19
178:14 179:22
181:7 182:9,17
186:21 187:7
192:5 193:5,14
198:18 200:8
203:7 209:15
216:13 217:1
217:14 218:24
219:4
questioning
215:9
questions 10:1
10:15 11:14
16:20 63:12,1¢
63:17,21 78:15
79:14,15 84:2¢
84:22,24 85:7
90:21 91:14
101:19 105:12
| 118:8 122:24
133:13 135:2
139:17 161:10
163:23 167:6,9
170:9 172:1
182:13 189:13
190:8 199:12
199:14 202:12
| 206:5,19
| .210:11 213:11
213:22,23
| 215:20 217:23
| 217:24 218:2,5
quick 78:23
quickly 130:3
, | quite 52:20
80:6 164:18
quote 88:2
140:3 176:10
quotes 212:17
r
r 8:12,22
racial 194:8
racially 120:22
racing 180:7
4\radio 16:3
109:8
» |range 200:6,11
) | rank 179:7
)
ranking 179:1
179:16
rapport 27:6
115:1,4
rate 108:6
rather 49:19
rationale 55:2
rblaw.net 2:8
reached 135:13
reaction 32:19
32:20 106:12
reading 65:4
real 200:11
realistic 69:2]
reality 69:22
realized 204:19
really 63:1
65:17 87:19
208:3
reason 51:3
141:9 170:24
reasonable
19:6 23:22
205:6,10 207:2
reasonably
183:11
reasons 190:13
| rebring 87:11
recall 11:12
15:6,24 26:5
26:20 28:10,17
32:8 38:12
42:12,13 46:4
51:19 53:5,24
59:11 63:5,10
63:23 64:11
65:10,13 66:8
68:11 71:3
72:1,10 73:24
88:1 90:8
96:11 105:15
116:24 119:10
119:14 126:1
133:12 144:9
144:11,13
155:20 170:23
174:23 180:18
188:4 190:8
191:9 196:15
| 212:22 213:17
recalled 176:9
receive 15:24
53:21 80:14
109:18 112:19
115:11
received 13:1
15:12 26:11,16
37:23 41:6
42:8 78:11
105:7 133:22
177:1 188:12
199:18
receiving 37:10
102:15
| recently 14:18
139:24
reckless 19:19
19:20 171:14
Page 38
[put - reckless]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
172:9,17 173:1
reclassification
86:10
recognize 25:9
recollection
10:10
recommend
22:23 80:18
recommendat...
17:8 80:22
93:21
recommendat...
17:6 22:18
recommending
74:12
record 7:2,7
8:4,7 9:16
43:21 44:9,10
44:13 79:3,6
122:4 150:22
164:7,11
174:21 202:16
202:18,20
219:15 220:14
recorded 7:8
21:4 31:9 34:6
58:18
recording 7:6
21:1 51:6 71:2
71:3,14,23
72:6
records 50:10
132:4,12,15
recover 20:11
61:3
recovered
48:13 65:21
70:15 124:10
124:15 136:24 ©
138:12
red 138:3
reduced 220:13
refer 47:19
referenced
90:23 91:13
referencing
100:21
referred 37:9
41:15 99:17
101:15 156:5
referring 83:19
150:22
refreshed
15:17
refresher 15:16
15:18
regained
125:23
regard 21:2
88:6
regarding
66:10 121:11
124:15 133:13
140:6 141:7
174:2,13
213:23 214:5
216:5,18 217:6
regards 45:16
regular 20:18
reinterview
53:7
reinterviews
49:15
reject 67:7 76:4
76:7 89:11
196:17
rejected 60:12
76:12 143:21
rejection 76:8
89:18 90:3
relaid 37:22
related 7:21
20:1 21:6
31:15 36:2
45:18 186:2
204:5 206:14
relationship
18:22 38:14,18
101:3,6
relative 183:17
220:18,19
relay 10:9
38:13 40:9
52:15 63:8
67:13 126:3
relayed 68:2
154:6
relaying 68:12
release 35:4,6
released 21:15
35:11 64:1,3
relevance 81:7
112:21
relevant 79:15
183:16 184:3
193:20 197:3,8
relocated 32:4
212:10
remains 47:5
remember
102:23 174:1
174:12,16
176:13 191:1
—— -199:14 210:18
—-212:13
remembered
212:8
remotely 8:3
rendezvous
20:12
renew 161:17
162:2 163:23
reopen 80:17
87:18
repeat 199:4
rephrase 10:17
93:17 97:18
replaced
198:16
report 6:14,17
24:10,21,23
25:4,12,14
33:15,20 39:1
53:21 54:1,5
60:1 62:12
Page 39
[reckless - report]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
78:11 85:22
86:1,3,6,11,14
88:8 98:2
101:20,21
102:12,16
120:7 122:3,11
133:14,18,21
134:1,13
141:14 170:1
174:9,22 175:2
175:13 176:17
181:17 196:12
197:9,9 210:13
212:16,18
reported 5:23
42:22 174:6
203:17 220:12
reporter 1:20
7:19 9:1 11:1,3
39:15 220:5
reporting
16:14 24:12
reports 24:8,13
24:13,14 51:13
59:5 65:5
113:22 170:16
193:24
represent 8:9
79:10 118:4
164:15 170:13
173:7 177:16
represented
12:16
representing
7:17 8:13
request 81:4
110:23
requested
58:23 67:10
76:9 105:2
132:11
requirement
| 218:19
requires 54:8
58:1 69:16
166:20 170:6
181:5,23
187:20 190:16
195:7 197:15
198:9 199:20
201:20 204: 1
| 204:12
reside 12:10
residence 199:]
212:10
| resident 43:12
173:18 204:11
204:20
residents 156:7
180:24 199:1,7
206:3 215:6,7
resides 46:8
residue 137:3,7
137:17
resort 114:10
114:12 205:7
207:7
respect 16:12
17:7 20:24
22:19 46:15
48:15,19 60:16
62:17 67:6
72:22 73:16
74:1,5 126:8
127:18 133:24
178:18 179:19
187:2 189:24
190:7 199:6
203:20 204:24
205:12,13,20
respond 13:22
16:15 57:7
97:4 109:11
180:2 182:8
192:19,20
responded 69:7
72:17 191:8
responder
192:20
responders
192:23
responding
24:11 28:5
118:17 155:17
165:3 178:19
181:19 182:10
response 13:23
96:6 160:3,7
179:2,8,16,19
179:21 199:19
200:22
responses 11:2
responsibility
191:7
responsible
182:23 192:3,8
192:14,24
193:1 194:17
214:4
rest 53:5 66:16
156:12 197:9
result 18:2,6
19:16 38:20
169:18
results 102:9
133:24 134:13
retained
219:19
retreat 150:6
retreated 151:1
returning
168:18 199:10
revealed
147:21
review 22:12
119:2 140:18
146:8 155:12
170:16
reviewed
127:19 134:2
155:12
reviewing
113:22
riccio 29:8
45:10,23,24
Page 40
[report - riccio]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
46:24 55:7
56:15 141:7
176:1,2,2
187:13
right 10:6,21
11:5,19,21
12:14 18:8
19:24 20:6
21:7 23:9,12
25:1 26:18
27:11 28:8
29:9,14 31:18
32:16 33:18
34:3,20 35:8
35:19 36:5,9
39:21 42:15
43:19 44:18
45:2,10,23
46:14 48:10,19
49:5 50:7,15
51:13,16 52:4
53:20 55:7
56:12 57:1,9
57:11 60:3
61:7,15 65:4
65:18 67:20
69:10 70:12
71:23 74:1,11
75:6,10,19
77:14 78:18,20
87:6 95:6
98:17 99:14
114:11 118:13
119:24 123:20
123:21 124:15
124:20 128:4
128:20 139:19
140:15 151:24
152:22 154:11
158:19 161:16 ©
162:9 164:14
165:22 175:19
179:15 180:21
185:17 186:15
188:6,8 189:24
191:5 199:3,16
203:20 205:15
205:21 210:1
212:4
robbery 14:12
robe 40:14
139:9
robert 1:11
119:23
role 21:2 23:18
romantic 18:21
romanucci 2:3
50:21 66:1
67:12,16
194:24
romero 1:9
4:19 9:9 72:11
170:13,18
171:10 172:4
216:6,10
room 103:8
rooms 123:5
rules 1:16 10:7
10:11 20:16,24
“running 116:22
runs 116:19
rush 81:10
ryan 34:2,8
s 6:12 8:8 122:5
safe 98:6 172:4
safety 146:11
147:13 148:13
157:15
salted 186:8 —
satisfied 197:2
saw 26:23 27:1
29:5,6 75:4
173:21 178:1
205:23
saying 26:9
45:20 61:22
69:21 70:3
110:12 114:3
158:18 176:13
says 38:16
136:13
scared 169:16
scenario
115:13
scene 16:5,9,15
20:14 21:17
22:4 23:23
25:23 26:7,20
52:14 61:3
68:16,19,21
72:18 93:8,13
97:4 109:6
118:9 119:3
131:17,20
136:20 139:19
139:20 155:14
164:22 177:18
180:3 181:12
181:15 192:11
193:8 194:4
scenes 20:11
scharkey 3:12
8:13
school 62:22
158:1,2,3,7,8
schott 45:10,18
46:24 55:6
56:15 122:4,22
174:13 175:24
176:9,13
210:11,12,21
211:13
schott's 122:21
187:14
science 184:11
scope 214:22
215:10
screaming
141:15
screen 44:4
175:16 176:20
scroll 175:15
Page 41
[riccio - scroll]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
se 30:20
seal 220:24
search 58:15
105:4,5
second 18:9,11
18:13,16,18,24
19:4 74:22
80:4 82:5
83:10 87:24
90:7 106:6
141:20 144:15
178:11 185:16
202:9
seconds 70:21
169:1 186:4,5
186:19,24
201:13
secure 181:15
secured 192:2
192:12
securing
192:24
security 29:17
72:22,24 73:13
73:15
see 19:18 26:20
29:4 44:4
91:17,20 92:4
95:6 103:23
105:19,22
113:20 125:20
131:14 133:5
152:8,12 163:2
165:12 175:16
180:17 184:2
198:5 199:10
210:22 211:8
212:8
seeing 134:3
| | seek 43:4 82:22
131:16,19
seeking 59:19
117:14
seem 52:19
54:13 57:22
seemed 42:3
seen 44:18
198:1
select 189:22
Self 19:5 23:17
23:18,21 24:2
33:3,10 34:19
35:24 67:2,4
75:8 76:15
77:2,5 89:19
89:21 102:6
147:14 148:11
148:14 149:3.4
207:1 208:5,7
218:17,20
send 22:1 59:6
sense 53:12,16
184:24 186:15
189:3,6
sensitive 7:3
sent 36:24 49:7
137:11 138:5
138:19 139:6
139:13 140:14
Separate 24:23
82:17 171:7
214:11
separately 40:7
/ | September 15:7
15:20 36:8
46:18,19 47:20
49:11,12 50:8
57:4 64:15
68:7 72:19,23
75:12 104:10
104:11 118:14
119:17 131:21
sequence 31:12
sergeant 16:6,7
28:4 29:1
91:24,24 165:5
series 167:5
seriously 69:4
serve 55:22
56:3 57:8
set 10:6 55:12
195:5 220:23
several 13:12
13:20 14:10
24:16 27:20
30:4 51:18
64:5 67:15
69:20 101:8
110:14,15
132:13 154:12
160:16 169:1
198:2 201:13
sexual 13:9
shaken 38:8
177:20
shared 174:24
| sharing 176:19
| Shell 29:7 48:12
shift 189:17
Shirley 43:8,11
43:12 46:24
48:7 51:21
56:1 57:1,17
104:13,19
153:15
shirt 139:2
shoot 218:20
shooter 26:9
30:23 37:9
shooting 16:3
25:20,24 26:1
26:8,11 29:19
31:12 38:11,15
41:1,4 45:14
48:22 51:19
52:21 64:14
69:13 73:7
95:3 121:10,11
125:20 126:4,8
128:12 137:5
137:15 144:3
150:15 158:1,2
158:3,7,8
170:22 173:19
174:4 177:3
178:11 183:7
Page 42
[se - shooting]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
183:23 191:3,3
192:11,14
194:8 214:20
shootings 14:20
15:2
shoots 19:22
short 140:5
184:15
shorthand 1:20
220:4
shot 31:2 117:7
126:17 135:6
137:3 179:17
189:5
shots 45:22
113:15 121:18
122:13 141:7
141:15 176:11
179:16 188:19
201:7
show 25:2
141:17 142:18
showed 48:7
210:12
showing 175:6
shows 196:12
side 13:18
155:9,10
184:22
sign 29:23,24
signature 221:3
significant
126:18
signs 29:20
simply 102:10
sir 10:20 11:4
79:22 85:7
87:1 89:13,14
89:23 90:19
93:4 96:18
97:22,24 100:2
109:20 116:20
180:20 182:24
183:1 190:5
194:13 196:24
202:23
sirens 180:6
site 105:21
159:8
sitting 134:15
situation 22:3
99:3 111:23
127:4 149:8
157:24 165:15
174:10 182:14
182:20 183:2
192:10 209:6
situational
172:1 181:17
situations
106:16 112:9
149:2
six 13:5
skin 45:19
174:14,16,17
skipped 91:16
slash 86:11
slid 56:7
sliding 144:14
slow 110:20
smith 1:10 3:21
5:20 8:13 9:15
26:23 27:1
30:17 31:5,11
31:13,22 32:10
32:15 33:1,3
35:4,11,13
36:2 38:10
41:7 49:]
58:18 64:1
66:11 67:2
73:19 76:16
77:6,23 79:12
86:18 88:6
89:3 90:15
92:12 94:19
95:9,21 96:10
102:2,8 113:2
113:4,6,15,17
113:21,23,24
| 114:2 115:23
—— -116:8 117:2,7
123:18 124:2
124:19,24
125:3 126:10
126:16,19
127:7 128:3,13
130:17 131:3
134:24 135:8
135:13 137:4
138:13,23
139:1 142:22
144:2 145:3,9
145:22 148:12
149:23 150:16
154:3 155:22
156:6,11
159:20 161:2
161:24 163:6
174:8 177:17
177:19,22
178:5,9 184:7
186:7,7,17
187:3,4,5,12,13
188:1,6,12
189:4 190:12
191:23 195:4
195:16 196:4
196:15 198:1
201:18 203:4
205:13,14
| -213:15,22
-smith's 37:8
39:22 48:19,23
58:15 105:3
124:17 133:1
135:18 138:16
139:2 150:20
198:15 210:1
software
112:18,19
solely 125:2
solutions 7:18
7:20 219:19
Page 43
[shooting - solutions]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
somebody
17:24 19:22
24:20 54:19
82:12 98:1
99:4 109:5
112:9 147:24
157:5,16 158:1
158:2,4,18
169:16 179:17
182:14 183:2
192:2,13,24
193:7 194:10
207:17 208:7
209:5 214:6,14
218:19,20
somebody's
55:1 214:14
son 38:24
sooner 68:23
69:7
sorry 27:8 44:¢
52:15 67:14
78:11 91:3
93:18 103:15
131:9 144:22
152:2,18 160:¢
199:5 215:19
218:1,5 219:3
sort 91:16
104:18 123:24
124:23 165:9
174:14 194:11
sought 38:19
74:6,8
sound 121:18
128:19
sounded 46:9
south 29:7
span 30:8
speak 20:14
22:12 27:2
28:6 47:20
51:21,23 52:2
61:11 62:23
67:10 68:4
75:23 134:7
171:22
_ | speaking 8:19
10:11 19:21
23:23 24:10
44:24 71:16
73:20 82:9
87:3 88:3
157:13 180:2
200:2
special 14:13
111:21
specific 15:11
19:13 20:17
83:19 98:23
172:20 182:2
200:4
specifically
52:8 66:21
114:17
specified
220:17
speculate 93:14
197:15
speculation
54:9 58:2
81:17 83:2,3
84:18 87:12,13
92:14 94:6
99:9 108:17,18
126:20,24
129:23,24
130:13,21
146:16 147:17
148:17 151:3
154:19 155:6
157:22 160:20
166:19,21
170:6 180:9
181:5,24
182:16 184:18
187:21 188:21
190:17 192:5
195:8 199:21
200:7 201:20
204:1,12
209:12 211:14
213:6 214:9
speculative
169:5
spitting 195:5
splatters 29:23
split 196:16
spoke 28:4,10
28:11,15,18
32:14,24 34:2
54:23 56:10
60:6 61:16,18
62:1,6 63:18
65:6 67:20
82:4,14 101:7
105:14 106:5
119:16,19,21
119:23 122:5
~ -134:3 139:20
155:21 170:18
194:23 211:23
spoken 33:1
171:24
spreadsheet
96:6
squad 26:21
212:9 213:3
ss 220:2
ssbpartners.c...
3:18,19
st 4:5,6
stabbings 15:2
staff 27:21
36:19,19 73:4
staffing 73:3
stages 117:17
stain 138:3
stairs 19:15
154:13
stairways
155:3
stairwell 155:8
155:9
Page 44
[somebody - stairwell]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
stamping
140:24
stand 109:2]
207:11,18
standard
149:16
standing 215:8
standpoint
148:8
star 91:24
165:5
started 68:17
starting 13:2
state 1:17,21
7:24 8:3 13:12
42:8 82:22
137:11 138:5
138:19 139:6
139:13 168:9
194:3 197:16
197:21 207:10
207:11 220:1,5
state's 17:9,10
22:6,16,19
23:11 33:2,23
34:1,2,7,14,15
35:5 45:6 49:4
49:7,8 50:12
51:15 52:6,8
§2:22 53:16
55:5,10 56:11
56:15 57:2,10
58:22,23 59:1
60:16 64:3
65:1 66:22
67:6,24 71:11
74:2,3,4,13
75:18 76:12
77:13 80:18,23
81:1 84:6
88:11,21 89:17
103:7,11 116:3
116:11,15
119:6 122:5
123:1,3 133:16
143:11,17,19
156:9 196:17
201:17 203:11
205:17 212:4
216:5,18 217:6
stated 134:19
137:16
statement
62:18 122:23
123:19 124:17
139:18 140:2
168:6 190:15
191:10,15,17
191:20,22
193:20 210:14
statements
91:7 107:17
120:3,3 136:4
142:21 177:1
212:3
states 207:19
208:3 212:16
stating 174:13
212:22
station 21:16
64:9
status 75:19
76:11 194:16
statute 80:10
87:20,23
statutes 17:13
17:13
stay 30:6 98:6
stenographic...
220:12
steps 20:7
46:15,20 60:23
60:24 65:1
116:13
stop 45:20,21
176:19
stopping 70:21
71:2,23
story 120:10
strategy 201:16
202:3
street 1:22 2:5
2:14 3:4,15 5:5
5:15 180:8
stress 38:7
strictly 15:13
strike 36:15
90:13 91:1
97:17 106:4
151:11 171:20
187:15 190:24
205:12
strikes 82:15
striking 19:16
122:12 176:10
strong 18:1
23:6
struck § 19:13
39:10 151:1,9
174:7 176:23
struggle 29:21
29:23 ,24
stuff. [72:21
submit 103:9
submitted
33:15,16 86:7
subpoena
55:24 56:6
57:5,7,19
104:4,17,20
subpoenaed
59:5,7 122:6
subpoenas
55:15,19 59:14
102:20 104:11
104:14
subsequent
63:6,11 65:23
substance 11:6
122:13
substances
78:6
substantive
172:3
Page 45
[stamping - substantive]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
sucking 127:2
sudler 1:7,7
4:18 7:11 9:8
72:11 170:13
172:23 217:8
217:11
suffering 11:1¢
suggest 77:21
108:8
suggested
179:6 195:15
suicide 140:6
suite 1:22 2:5
2:14 3:4,15 4:5
4:13 5:5 7:15
summary 50:9
summation
135:12
summoned
40:11 212:11
super 195:21
superiors
196:22
supervisor
52:17
supp 25:3
supplemental
24:12 65:5
175:1,13
210:12
supplementary
6:17
support 76:15
supposed 99:6
supreme 1:17
sure 11:2 13:4
13:17 15:1,13
16:13 20:10
39:16,17 40:20
) 42:24 59:4
76:2 84:4
85:16 106:15
144:22 165:7
182:10 202:17
209:1,19
210:19
) | surface 176:10
surprise 120:1'
121:16
surprised
111:14
surprising
121:7
surveillance
48:3 127:19
suspected
87:10
swabs 137:23
138:2,11,14
140:11
swear 9:2
sweeney 3:12
8:12
sweep 165:7,12
sworn 9:19
10:3 220:9
synonymously
82:20
system 54:19
78:13 141:1
179:1 214:20
| t
t 6:12 29:6
122:5,5
tactic 110:20
tactical 13:6
take 7:6 10:21
11:3 16:6 27:9
31:5 33:13
34:16 35:9
| 40:4 56:18
60:15 69:3
78:22 81:5,13
81:24 82:1
85:21 97:8
114:23 120:7
156:16 164:4
176:21 202:14
taken 1:15,19
7:9 44:12 79:4
112:8 137:4
138:2,12,15
139:2,9,10
140:12 142:23
164:8 202:19
220:16
‘ | takes 81:14
talk 47:18 53:3
66:24 81:6
110:21 114:21
114:24 115:6
193:23
talked 57:19
67:1 80:3
82:10 83:9
143:19 209:21
talking 20:22
44:8 84:4,5
92:2 95:23
99:2 108:13
128:7 196:19
tapes 96:5
97:21
team 13:24
15:9
teammates
198:21
teams 189:15
189:17
tech 47:7
technically
217:19
technicians
24:15 61:4
tedaldi 1:94:18
9:8 170:14
171:22 172:5,8
172:11 216:19
216:22
telephone 15:3
95:3
tell 12:9 14:22
16:10 17:18
Page 46
[sucking - tell]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
24:7 32:18
33:14 35:19
37:12 38:9
42:12 52:11
59:2 60:19
66:15 67:19
69:20 72:5,7
84:21 85:1,6
108:6 110:14
116:2 121:24
125:19 133:10
173:12 187:24
189:9 193:10
194:5,11
197:20 210:21
telling 84:23
174:2 212:13
temporary
21:14,17
ten 96:13,16
186:3,3
tendered 43:16
50:22 51:1
tere 164:20
term 114:20
terminology
74:7 207:15
terms 13:15
23:18 44:6
60:15 82:23
83:16 84:17
85:14 98:15
102:12 109:3
114:19 167:5
179:7 194:15
210:7
test 136:18
137:3,7,8
testified 10:3
11:20,24 12:3
25:19 65:24
82:14 118:7
124:22 127:23
132:3 133:4,14
134:2,22
139:16,23
141:24 150:9
191:5 196:12
205:1 208:6
210:10,13
211:23
testify 11:16
123:11,13
220:9
testifying 10:12
211:2
testimony 11:8
57:20 118:9
122:21 125:2
125:10,14
135:7 142:4
143:5,9 150:9
150:12,20,23
151:6 158:24
165:16 170:15
174:2,13
180:19 188:4
188:10 191:12
196:15 201:21
205:1 209:22
213:5 219:16
220:14
testing 137:12
138:6,20 139:7
139:14 140:15
text 206:10,11
texting 58:19
thank 27:10
96:2 100:2
117:22,23,24
144:16 167:3
170:9171:9
173:3,7 177:10
206:18 217:17
218:14 219:7
219:12,13
thanks 219:10
the 54:4
theft 14:12
themself 93:23
theory 172:16
thing 26:19
67:18 164:21
181:13
things 15:2
63:20 69:21
70:3 164:19
169:3 172:2
190:9 208:6
212:6
think 20:23
23:1 80:2
81:19 88:2,19
88:23 89:7
102:21 104:10
105:13 107:9
117:21 157:12
164:17 166:1
175:5 183:14
185:23 201:2
207:6 211:12
215:18,19
thinking 170:2
170:5,7
thorough 183:4
thought 18:15
32:22 42:24
88:5 89:17
121:21,24
123:23 124:22
142:1 158:1
168:6 184:2
threat 146:19
162:18 163:3,6
163:13,16,19
threats 15:3
215:6
three 14:10
15:16 30:13
55:19,22 61:17
61:21,22
103:21 105:14
151:9 164:17
176:8 187:17
215:22 216:1
219:18
Page 47
[tell - three]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
tier 199:17,17
tik 105:20
time 7:5,24
10:22 26:13,17
27:9 29:10
46:18 49:11
50:16 56:22
57:24 58:8
61:24 78:19
79:2 81:6,14
87:7,19 88:21
88:23 91:2]
92:3,10,22
95:20,21 96:9
96:10,17
102:24 103:2
103:20,22
106:6 110:20
114:20,23
115:21 116:15
116:21 122:17
124:6,9 127:6
127:11 128:6
128:16 131:5
133:21,22
135:1 140:24
141:12,13,15
146:7,20,23
149:20 156:1
158:11 160:9
162:18 163:3
164:6,10
167:12,15
169:7 178:4,11
184:8 185:23
185:24 186:1
186:16,16,17
187:2 189:5
190:2,14
193:10,23,23
194:16,16
196:21 198:8
198:13 200:6
201:5,6,8
203:22 204:10
214:20 219:13
220:17
times 11:23
61:15,22,23
62:2 84:7 96:6
105:15 132:13
136:12 149:7
151:10 197:14
201:11
timestamps
140:22
tipped 42:9
today 11:8,17
12:17 134:15
173:8 209:22
today's 219:16
together 40:6,8
52:18 128:17
129:2 145:19
184:14 201:16
tok 105:20
told 36:13
38:23 42:2,13
45:17 54:12
64:24 66:18
67:2 68:12
116:5 117:13
123:22 124:17
125:19,22
126:16 133:5
139:22 151:18
151:22 155:16
169:12 194:7
212:7
took 27:5 46:15
46:19 61:1
65:13 67:2
120:2 145:9,16
166:17 176:22
191:23 195:1
top 36:3 111:16
141:18 188:1
188:14
total 61:23
219:17
touching
135:14
tough 94:10
toward 125:21
130:19 187:12
towards 29:8
120:23 128:22
130:7,9 153:14
185:8 187:13
tox 101:20
toxicologist
134:7
toxicology
53:21 54:5
78:11 101:21
102:9,11,16
133:14,18
134:1,9,13
197:9
traffic 179:3
train 112:16
trained 13:9
79:17,18 94:12
| 109:9,10 110:6
111:4,8,20
114:9 134:12
189:2]
trainees 109:10
training 13:1,6
| 13:6,11,11
15:11,14,15
79:18,21 80:1
80:6 81:12
107:21 109:18
109:22,23
110:10,24,24
111:10,12,17
111:21,22
112:7,11,13,14
112:19 113:6
113:20 114:19
114:21 126:22
129:21 134:9
147:11 205:1
211:11
Page 48
[tier - training]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
transcript 34:8
220:11
transport
26:24 177:22
transported
21:16,16
trauma 13:11
treatment
38:20 43:4
111:17 115:12
180:18
trespass 203:18
trespasser
213:24 214:6
214:12
trial 12:12
tribbia 5:4 6:8
9:10,10 99:12
108:21 121:3
143:3 148:23
149:15 150:8
156:21,23
161:7,18
164:13,15
166:23 167:3,4
169:10 170:8
212:15 213:6
217:18,22
218:14
trick 10:8
trigger 74:20
trucking
172:20
true 48:11
87:15 111:10
183:13 220:14
truth 220:9
truthfully
11:16
try 20:11 22:14
23:11 57:4
110:20,21,22
114:24 115:5,5 _
164:19 196:21
trying 10:8
104:17 214:1
214:14
turn 16:641:2 ©
66:7 88:19
turned 47:12
107:4
turning 15:19
two 29:23
33:17 54:3
56:24 62:2
64:13 81:14
82:1 95:17
103:20 105:16
140:3 151:9
176:8 187:17
191:2,3 202:11
202:12 214:11
type 18:19
20:11 38:18
53:13 93:15
108:8 113:21
114:1 146:11
162:17 165:15
165:18 209:1
types 14:8,10
54:4 127:10
typewriting
220:13
typewritten
121:10
typical 16:11
22:7,8 30:20
60:15 98:15
108:14 179:21
typically 96:19
97:16 98:4
112:14
we
u 8:8
us. 22:13
ultimate 52:17
67:7
ultimately
17:10 56:7
69:11 124:19
—-203:21 205:17
unable 56:4
57:8,18
unarmed 209:4
unclear 81:17
—— :128:6
undefined
84:17
under 11:5
21:19,22 23:21
— §3:17,22 56:7
89:4 90:15
— 96:11 105:9
172:16,24
| 21:21 213:1
—-220:13
undermine
TTS
underneath
—— -138:9
“understand
~— -10:15,16,23
11:14 36:11
53:15 97:14
103:15 167:17
169:15 193:5
understanding
50:24 93:2
94:17 95:13,15
96:8 98:3
100:19 101:13
111:2 112:12
116:7 170:17
172:14 177:19
178:9 182:11
184:6,10,12
185:9 186:4
187:3 188:17
189:16 190:1
197:11 198:23
201:7 203:17
205:4 213:1,4
218:18 219:2,6
Page 49
[transcript - understanding]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
understood
10:18 165:14
199:7
unit 7:8 14:13
22:2 24:17
123:7 153:14
164:24 165:19
168:13 189:22
189:24 190:1
199:2,9
units 13:20
200:3,12,22
211:9 219:18
unlawful 53:14
unlocked 40:2]
133:7 151:16
unquote 140:3
unusual 81:24
82:3 107:12
update 51:16
51:20 59:3,13
59:18,19,21
64:23 116:1,4
updated 13:12
§7:17,21
updates 61:9
uploaded 34:7
ups 202:11
upset 31:15
106:7,12,15
upstairs 92:13
94:19 95:10
96:17 129:7
133:7 146:8
147:7 150:1,20
156:11 159:3
use 74:7 82:18
82:19 83:13,15
84:7,9 85:9,14
107:16 110:20
114:1 169:4
207:15 209:7,9
218:21
used 82:18
111:11 113:10
114:20 155:3
207:7 208:9
209:6 219:18
. | uses 208:7
using 120:21
usually 16:13
114:12
v
Vv 8:8
vague 179:23
vaidya 3:3 6:5
8:6,7 10:5
12:13 25:8
35:3 39:8,13
39:20 44:1,17
53:6 54:16
55:3 58:5
69:18 70:1
71:1,22 77:1
77:11 78:14,18
93:9 94:1,4,24
96:24 97:11
| 98:10,19 99:10
108:2,22
112:20 125:5
| 125:12 126:13
126:23 130:1
130:14,22
131:8 132:1
| 135:10,22
142:3 143:1,15
143:22 144:7
145:7,12 146:1
146:15 147:2
147:15 148:5
148:15,18
149:13,17
150:11 151:5
152:13,16
154:21 156:17
156:20 157:6
157:18 159:1
159:11 160:21
161:9,17 162:2
162:10,19
163:11,22
203:15 204:9
204:21 206:5
207:12,20
208:12 209:9
211:15 213:8
214:23 215:11
| 219:8
| valid 23:21
31:22 77:2
89:18 102:7
149:5
validates
102:13
vanderlaan 5:3
varied 185:3
187:24,24
vehicle 177:22
verbalize 11:2
verbatim 37:17
135:12 212:16
verbiage
155:20
verify 58:20
veritext 7:18,2C
219:19
version 135:3
135:18
versus 7:11
21:12
viable 22:20
victim 44:8
victims 14:13
victor 8:8
video 7:6 20:11
43:17 44:7,7
44:15,18,24
45:2,5 48:7
49:2 127:18
128:7,11,12,19
129:14,16,19
130:8,12,18
131:1,12,13
146:9 162:23
163:3
Page 50
[understood - video]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
videographer
5:22 7:1,18
8:20 9:1 44:10
44:13 78:22
79:1,5 164:5,9
202:17,20,23
219:15
videotape
178:1
videotaped
10:24
view 77:5
viewed 131:12
vigilante 157:2
195:21
vigilantes
156:16 195:17
violent 13:10
13:22 14:6,11
14:14
violently 70:9
visible 165:11
visit 50:9
visual 165:7,12
voice 71:17
173:10
voicemail 64:2
voluntarily
55:11
voluntary 20:4
vs 1:6
Ww
w 1:7 8:12,22
wabash 212:11
wacker 4:13
wagner 1:19
5:23 7:19
220:4
wait 93:8,23
98:16 99:6
160:23 161:2,5
161:15,24
waited 160:17
199:13
walk 13:14
15:10 20:6
25:17 33:24
46:14 153:2
walked 60:23
116:13 120:20
182:5
walking 130:7
130:19 144:2
walks 18:20
128:22
wall 29:24
140:11 144:14
151:11 188:4
188:18
wangler 5:14
8:22,22 12:11
52:24 76:21
83:3 100:24
108:3,16
112:21 121:4
125:13 126:24
129:24 131:7,9
141:17 142:6
143:6,13
145:14,24
146:14 147:18
148:4,16 151:4
154:20 157:19
159:24 202:14
207:21 209:13
214:24 215:12
215:21 219:14
want 10:8,12
16:19 36:5
46:14 53:7
55:10 60:19
75:22 81:5
85:21,23 90:21
97:7 102:14
106:17 128:9
144:17 148:8
158:2 168:17
201:3 202:10 —
209:24
wanted 21:9
32:19 40:21
51:21,22 52:1
53:3,9 55:5
58:20 64:3
66:12 92:20
107:10 116:3
122:23 127:17
warned 114:2
warrant 22:15
58:15,22 105:2
105:2,4,5
warranted
80:16 102:4
173:22
watched
162:23
watching 126:3
way 8:18 11:7
15:4 28:21
39:18 83:14,15
84:9 86:14
90:10 113:3
115:16 117:15
120:4 129:17
130:18 133:2
140:11 144:12
153:7 162:9,16
165:17 182:12
200:4
we've 164:18
weak 23:6
weapon 48:13
123:24 145:4
148:1 209:1,5
weapons
124:10,14
208:21,23
wearing 70:6
124:6
week 15:13
Page 51
[videographer - week]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
weeks 42:2
140:3
weiss 4:12 6:9
9:7,7 93:11
94:5 95:5
96:23 98:20
108:18 148:2
148:21 156:22
170:11,13
173:3 211:16
215:18,24
216:3,16 217:4
217:17
wenger 3:13
8:11,12 9:16
39:18 83:2,17
84:10 85:4
87:12 90:17
91:9 92:14
93:10 94:2,6
94:21 95:11
96:22 97:10
98:9,18 99:7
100:23 101:11
107:23 112:1
112:22 117:4
120:24 125:15
126:12,20
128:5 129:12
129:23 130:13
130:21 131:6
131:10,22
135:9,21 142:5
143:2,5,23
144:6,17,20
145:6,13 146:2
146:13,16
147:3,16
148:19 149:14
150:7,12 151:3
152:1 153:4
154:19 155:6
156:18 157:7,9
157:21 158:24
159:10 160:1
| 160:20 161:11
161:20 162:3
162:11,14
163:8 175:5
177:13 207:13
207:23 208:11
209:11,16
211:14 213:7
214:8,21 215:8
219:9
wengler 148:3
went 13:20
14:18 15:15,17
16:5,9 27:7,16
30:3,4,8,9,10
31:20 32:5,8
37:10 38:23
40:16 42:4
47:4 52:13,18
63:19 73:2]
80:2 88:20
| 92:22 95:9,18
95:21 96:10,14
96:17 125:21
133:7 135:2
145:16,19
147:7,9 150:1
151:18,22
152:7,11,21
153:14,18,21
153:24 154:3
160:9 163:17
163:20 165:6
167:12 170:3
180:16 198:5,5
199:13 203:21
203:22
west 3:15 13:17
31:7 155:8
184:22
westbound
153:15,20
whereof 220:23
whispering 7:4
white 2:4 6:7
8:15,15 39:4
54:10,21 76:20
77:10 78:7
117:23 118:2,4
121:8,23 125:6
125:18 126:15
126:21 127:5
128:8,10
129:13 130:6
130:16 131:2
131:15 132:2
135:15 136:1
141:20,23
142:10,11
143:10,16
144:1,10,15,18
144:21 145:1,8
145:18 146:6
146:21 147:6
147:23 148:9
149:6,22
150:18 151:13
152:2,6,19
153:6 155:1,11
157:3,14 158:6
159:2,14 160:4
160:5,22
161:14,23
162:6,15,22
163:12 164:3
166:19,22
175:6,8 179:22
180:9 181:3,6
182:16 184:16
184:19 185:19
186:10,20
187:6,19,22
188:9,20 189:7
190:18 191:13
192:4,16
193:13 194:5
194:20 195:10
196:8 197:12
197:18 198:11
198:17 200:7
200:19 201:22
Page 52
[weeks - white]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
202:6,13 203:8
204:3,14
206:20,22
207:16 208:4
208:15 209:20
211:19 212:21
213:10 214:17
215:4,16
216:12,24
217:13 218:23
219:3
wife 18:21
wise 60:20
wish 66:10
wished 67:19
witness 6:3 9:2
9:18 10:2 12:5
25:2 27:24
35:1 39:6,19
44:7,16 53:2
54:6,11,22
58:3 69:19
70:20,24 71:21
76:18,22 78:10
81:21 84:1
85:8 90:18
91:10 92:15
93:12 94:8
95:1 96:3 97:2
97:12 98:12,22
101:1,12 108:5
108:23 112:4
112:23 117:5
118:12 121:6
121:20 125:16
127:1 130:2,23
131:11,23
135:11,23
136:4,13 142:7
143:7 144:8
145:15 146:4
146:18 147:4
147:20 148:6
149:1,18
150:14 151:8
152:4,14,17
154:22 155:7
157:1,11,23
159:12 160:2
161:12,21
162:4,20 163:9
164:1 167:1,21
167:22 168:1
172:2 177:8
178:15 179:12
180:1,10 181:8
182:1,19 183:7
183:8 184:20
185:13,20
186:11,23
187:9,23
188:11,23
189:8 190:4,20
191:14 192:7
192:18 193:6
193:15 194:21
195:11,20
196:9 197:3,19
198:12,19
200:1,10,18,20
201:12,23
202:7 203:9
204:4,15,18 )
207:14 208:1
208:13 209:17
211:17 214:10
215:1,14
216:14 217:2
217:15 219:5
219:12 220:8,8
220:23
witnesses 20:10
23:23 28:7
32:24 34:10,12
34:14 45:9
53:4,8,10,11
54:12 57:20
69:20 75:23
81:7 87:3 89:1
118:9,19
120:15 123:2
137:16 150:21
174:2 177:2
186:2 197:8,21
woman 194:6
word 10:22
34:16 82:19,20
84:7 85:9
107:16 113:9
113:11
words 10:23
83:13 85:12
98:23 112:8
212:20
work 12:14
14:17,21 15:4
53:22 62:19,24
63:3 108:15
111:23 112:7
189:17 198:2
worked 13:21
13:21,23 27:21
38:6
working
180:23
works 112:3
worn 118:22
119:2,6 155:13
worried 151:16
wound 127:3
wounds 127:2
127:10 135:14
wow 42:7
wrap 144:23
write 33:20
written 169:24
174:2]
wrong 95:7
119:18 127:23
140:1 153:1
172:15 206:24
wrongful 8:16
118:5
wrote 176:16
Page 53
[white - wrote]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Veritext Legal Solutions
800-567-8658
973-410-4098
x
x 6:2,12
Mi
y 8:9
yeah 38:7
105:5 112:5
144:18 191:21
year 12:1 14:1
19:14 52:20,21
64:12 82:1
years 12:23
15:16 33:17
79:23 81:11,11
81:14 83:8
98:3 106:11,11
110:15 111:1
136:11,15
yelling 46:12
72:8 158:14
yep 177:13
younan 1:10
3:10 36:7
Z
zoom 39:13
Page 54
[x - zoom]
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
Illinois Code of Civil Procedure
Article II, Part E
Rule 207, Signing and Filing Depositions
Signing and Filing Depositions
(a) Submission to Deponent; Changes; Signing.
Unless signature is waived by the deponent, the
officer shall instruct the deponent that if the
testimony is transcribed the deponent will be
afforded an opportunity to examine the deposition
at the office of the officer or reporter, or
elsewhere, by reasonable arrangement at the
deponent's expense, and that corrections based on
errors in reporting or transcription which the
deponent desires to make will be entered upon the
deposition with a statement by the deponent that
the reporter erred in reporting or transcribing the
answer or answers involved. The deponent may not
otherwise change either the form or substance of
his or her answers. The deponent shall provide the
officer with an electronic or physical address to
which notice is to be sent when the transcript is
available for examination and signing. When the
deposition is fully transcribed, the officer shall
deliver to the deponent, at the address supplied,
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
notice that it is available and may be examined at
a stated place at stated times, or pursuant to
arrangement. After the deponent has examined the
deposition, the officer shall enter upon it any
changes the deponent desires to make, with the
reasons the deponent gives for making them. If
the deponent does not appear at the place specified
in the notice within 28 days after the mailing of
the notice, or within the same 28 days make other
arrangements for examination of the deposition, or
after examining the deposition refuses to sign it,
or after it has been made available to the deponent
by arrangement it remains unsigned for 28 days, the
officer's certificate shall state the reason for
the omission of the signature, including any reason
given by the deponent for a refusal to sign. The
deposition may then be used as fully as though
signed, unless on a motion to suppress under Rule
211(d) the court holds that the reasons given by
the deponent for a refusal to sign require
rejection of the deposition in whole or in part.
(b) Certification, Filing, and Notice of Filing.
(1) If the testimony is transcribed, the officer
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
shall certify within the deposition transcript that
the deponent was duly sworn by the officer and that
the deposition is a true record of the testimony
given by the deponent. A deposition so certified
requires no further proof of authenticity
(2) Deposition transcripts shall not be filed with
the clerk of the court as a matter of course. The
party filing a deposition shall promptly serve
notice thereof on the other parties and shall
file the transcript and any exhibits in the
form and manner specified by local rule.
DISCLAIMER: THE FOREGOING CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES
ARE PROVIDED FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY.
THE ABOVE RULES ARE CURRENT AS OF APRIL 1,
2019. PLEASE REFER TO THE APPLICABLE STATE RULES
OF CIVIL PROCEDURE FOR UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION.
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
COMPANY CERTIFICATE AND DISCLOSURE STATEMENT
Veritext Legal Solutions represents that the
foregoing transcript is a true, correct and complete
transcript of the colloquies, questions and answers
as submitted by the court reporter. Veritext Legal
Solutions further represents that the attached
exhibits, if any, are true, correct and complete
documents as submitted by the court reporter and/or
attorneys in relation to this deposition and that
the documents were processed in accordance with
our litigation support and production standards.
Veritext Legal Solutions is committed to maintaining
the confidentiality of client and witness information,
in accordance with the regulations promulgated under
the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability
Act (HIPAA), as amended with respect to protected
health information and the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, as
amended, with respect to Personally Identifiable
Information (PII). Physical transcripts and exhibits
are managed under strict facility and personnel access
controls. Electronic files of documents are stored
in encrypted form and are transmitted in an encrypted
FILED DATE: 8/28/2026 10:56 PM 2024L005346
fashion to authenticated parties who are permitted to
access the material. Our data is hosted in a Tier 4
SSAE 16 certified facility.
Veritext Legal Solutions complies with all federal and
State regulations with respect to the provision of
court reporting services, and maintains its neutrality
and independence regardless of relationship or the
financial outcome of any litigation. Veritext requires
adherence to the foregoing professional and ethical
standards from all of its subcontractors in their
independent contractor agreements.
Inquiries about Veritext Legal Solutions’
confidentiality and security policies and practices
should be directed to Veritext's Client Services
Associates indicated on the cover of this document or
at www.veritext.com.